10 replies to this topic

[mudmanc4]

The third california city has made it known they will seek protection from there creditors. The third in a growing list is San Bernardino California requesting chapter 9. Right behind Stockton and Mammoth Lakes

Although near the end of august 2012 , the city ( San Bernardino ) will no longer be able to pay city workers. However they will still be forced by union contracts to pay retired workers.

As california in itself is in serious trouble , the appointed leaders and public workers scream for more money and better benefit packages. This is the future of America, milk the system for all it's worth , then suck off the teet of whats left.

[Roco]

I hung back on comenting , as I know nothing of American union laws etc ,
and your strange " protection from there creditors " , but note there are serious troubles brewing all over the place ,
indeed one of Englands health care providors (NHS ) has called in administrators , it's a serious blow to our
national health service ,
Pensions set by Unions ? , seems an odd way of doing things , ours are set nationaly by the goverment in power at the time ,
but folk can buy into additional private schemes , and the unions play an active part in that , although gov workers do have a seperate sheme that is becoming unmanagble , (know as a gold plated pension ) the problem can only get worse as the level of pensioners
increases , and the level of folk working and paying in decreases , hence the UK's rush to raise the retirment age , soon to be 67 I belive ,
personaly I went freelance at 47 , so in effect only get basic state pension , + personal pensions I paid into ,
it's enough , as I value my time more than money , I figure I grew up beliving nobody owes me anything ,

[tommie gorman]

I will never be amazed at administration thinking they are more special than the actual workers ( unless you mean the owners and such .... the rest are simply pompous fools ). Like a college degree makes one better as a human than the rest.

[mudmanc4]

Pensions , wages and benefits ( or special packages payed for by the collective union ) are set by union leaders and politicians, then they present these items to the workers , getting them all fired up , claiming someone is out to get them. Pissing them off and making it look like everyone else is trying to take something from them that they deserve. Iv'e been to many union gatherings and witnessed this personally. It's freaky how the member selected union leaders are actually manipulating there fellow workers.

Then if they do not get the benefits they oh so deserve , the union leaders ( top down ) piss off the already pissed off men and women and rile them up claiming they will simply stop working if they don't get what they oh so deserve ( strike )

Roco this is how American unions operate. Interesting because the union gets a lot of that money, as stated and can be found in many places , the unions then back the politicians that control state funding and state commerce, so if you don't play , you don't have a business in that state. You can see many instances of large business that planned on building factories but were not able to due to unions / politicians mandating what the business does.

Whats more , is there doing this across state lines, they lump firefighters with teachers and policemen , maybe even a factory worker or entire sector such as electrical workers unions , so it's all or none , more by force , we will all strike if we don't get what we want. We witness this all the time , and the general public do not care for it one bit , remember scott walker ?

All of this and then politicians wonder why businesses take there companies out of the U.S. Duh ? The highest corporate tax rate in the world , what do you expect ? And the unions people still never get it , that there being played and used as tools, amazing.

[Roco]

Thanks for the info Mudmanc4, The unions don't have a strong hold anymore in the UK ,
I have mixed views about that , indeed they were useful back in the 60 hour 6 day weeks ,
I have been a union member several times, (not by choice ) back in the closed shop days ,
at one time I had to have membership of 3 unions as a traveling engineer ,
#1 SOGAT , society of graphic and alied trades,
#2 AEUW , amagamated engineering union workers
#3 ETU , electrical trades union
that was to be able just to walk through the door,
LOL
but you are right on Union leaders methods , the one and only union meeting I attended ,
only the 1 ? , as I had a excuse "working away from base", LOL some years I was only at base for a couple of weeks in the year,

at the union meeting , the union was demanding more pay /shorter hours /longer tea breakes / free shoes/ the right for the boss to call them Sir / to be given a job to be done by asking "sorry to interupt your card game would you mind terribly if at some stage in the day
you could have a look at this job ", etc ,

I can't remember what the gripe of the day was , but it was a strike vote , it went like this ,
all those idiots against the strike raise their hand , so we can see who you are ,
no need for a for the strike show of hands , as clearly the majority wins ,
a total farce IMHO .
we went on strike for 6 weeks , I went down the local building site and became a carpenters assistant next day
a beautiful summer working outside with some great self employed guys ,
I missed the strike end /call back to work , turned up 3 weeks late,
the company paid the 3 weeks pay and apologised, if they hadn't the union would have called another strike ,
totaly F^c*ing unbelivable ,
I guess I never grasped the, "this is my job and I want it my way" mentality ,indeed if the job don't suit the exit door aint
hard to find ,

[mudmanc4]

Of course thats my view and understanding of it all, I'm sure one of the hard core anti anything non union types would have something to say.

Great story you have there roco lmao

[Roco]

Of course thats my view and understanding of it all, I'm sure one of the hard core anti anything non union types would have something to say.

Great story you have there roco lmao

LOL. indeed "vive la différence", it's what make the world go around IMHO .
never had time for hard core anything ,why be a spectator , trust your inner self and go for it ,
or live with regrets ! , or go for it and suffer the consequences ,
as shakespear said "to be or not to be is the question "
btw. don't ask me I aint got a clue .but easly lead .

the small print , my views are mine alone , often distorted to suit my macavelion ends
dont we all ?

[tommie gorman]

over abundance of (welfare + unions) = todays economy. Yes just part of the downhill spiral. But still an important part of it. Why should an uneducated worker that makes cars live rich while another worker somewhere toils twice as hard to be able to just eat? I could go on forever, but hey its the present day. Its what we got handed.

[mudmanc4]

I'm not sure if I agree with the un- educated part. This country was built by men using there backs, maybe not the most well educated bunch , but thats where the American spirit comes in right there.

Sure education is the key to social advancement , and sustaining the social structures we have in place. At the same time , look back at the military, much different then todays military. Men did not have the technology we have today , they had to have guts and the will to survive in order to make it, or they were politically minded and advanced there way away from the front and closer to the administrative sectors.

I think we can say the same about society in general. Those that have chosen, and I stress the chosen part for many reasons, but simply put , we make our own choices, or someone else will make them for us inevitably.

Those that decide there going to do more then simple repetitive motions over extended periods of time , and expand themselves past this tedious yet much needed environment , do so. Others choose there lives are just fine settling in someplace that does not challenge them. To each there own , there is a place for everyone.

But don't sit comfortable in a mental mosh pit complaining about the things around you because you see something someone else has that you want, yet choose to stay comfy within the boundaries of your will. We should simply ignore this type of behavior instead of allowing the media and politicians to run way with the idea that someone is just as valuable and equal as the next, in there own aspect yes , but stay there , or move on to something larger.

Apathy is taken the toll of many men , don't allow it to become a monster and eat the rest of us. Very close to that now.

[tommie gorman]

Educated, funny how that one word got picked out.

The main idea was the auto worker is union, the other manual labor was to be non-union. Just not fair that just because the one fella was union was not fair that he got paid more and with no more skills than the other.

Yes I ended up making my own way same as you muddy, but not everyone falls into a chance finally to do so.

Ok, yes it also took guts. The guts to make one answerable to only himself for a paycheck. Most don't have that desire.

[mudmanc4]

I suppose I found that word to define the post and the issues relating to media / political verbiage. Since really thats what it is all about, education. Even if the education is constricted to self thoughts.

Taking the chance is going out of our comfort zone. It can be unnerving to know that the only way we'll be able to survive the lifestyle we've chosen is to be self reliant . That alone is an educating experience.

I know as so many do , that the people that you depend on to be extensions of your idea's and labor, many of them aspire to achieve more, if it be position and responsibility or learning more of what there currently doing to at some point take that chance and start something of there own.

For some reason it seems in the production aspect of our country , there is some sort of complacent attitude , as if the person would rather continue on one line, one track . And so be it, the world needs people that are genuinely satisfied with mediocrity in there lives. At the same token we should consider the fact people are not starting as many local businesses due to the fact there so well taken care of in there working lives as well as there retired lives , why do anything else.