Sequoia

I've been stopped many times & received plenty of tickets.For many years now I've had no tickets.Still I've had cops stop me or someone I was with because they didn't see the shoulder harness & thought I wasn't wearing a seat belt.

On two occasions when they saw a seatbelt was being worn they made up another reason for the stop.When called on it they only issued a warning ticket.You see for a while cops weren't supposed to stop a person just to check if the seat belt was being worn.I think this policy has changed.

I hadn't committed either violation so both had to have been made up by the cop on the spot.On one it was a good thing  I knew to ask to see the speed he said I was doing on his radar unit.It didn't match what he said.He also didn't know that I knew what he showed me was the preset speed the radar unit uses before it goes off.That's what keeps it from going off for all vehicles & only warns the cop for vehicles going above that speed.Them clocks the speed above the preset.I didn't tell him I knew this but since I had a witness with me that heard the cop say I was doing 73 mph & the preset showed 70mph .

I once had a cop write me 2 additional tickets because he didn't like my attitude & told me that.

Here's a switch I'm pretty much in agreement with tdawnaz.

I think sterilization for the first pregnancy after the child is born.A DNA done on the child to match to the father.

I think both should be sterilized.So I'm even more harsh on this.

I also think DNA should be mandatory for all babies & matched to the parents.If both parents can't be matched then social services takes custody till they can.This would prevent mistakes at the hospital of parents taking home the wrong baby,let the father know from the start if the child is his(good if a divorce happens).etc.

There would be exceptions  rape for example .

If you have to teach a kid under 12 anything about sex except how to stay clean. Then there is definitely something wrong with the system in the first place. Let them be kids dammit. Why rip out their innocence. They deserve good times too. Let them play  for goodness sake.

tommie gorman ; I would like it if it was your way but even when I was a child it wasn't .Children in my neighborhood checked each other out to put it politely.Sometimes more than that .I believe my first playing doctor was at 6 with a girl the same age being instructed by a 10 year old.

Still I believe it's the parents job to do the instructing not the schools but the parents need to do it.

Maybe Obama needs to run for president of Coca Cola.I wouldn't even vote for him there.

The reason for all the links is I was asked to link some of facts & figures.

The point of the last post was the inequality of treatment between the Christian & Muslim students .This being done by school personnel.

The Christian students were far more persecuted for things related to their beliefs.

The Muslim girls in two of the links were wearing their hijabs to schools where the school personnel were not stopping them in any way.The had some student harassment but that is not the same.

This in a predominately Christian country which the USA still is.

My point is they should allow religious freedom under the first amendment equally to both.That would be my American political view .

My Christian belief of what God will do to non Christians doesn't involve religious freedom or equality.I'm not a believer in many different religions with their own path to the same God .

The many paths view does seem to be one of Obamas' beliefs.One of my objections to him.Even then I think Obama will say anything to get elected.I guess that makes him like a lot of other politicians.

Back to the topic Obama, the antichrist ?

I won't quote chapter & verse but many think the "dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems" represents a one government world.The EU may be the start of this but the rest of the countries will need to join them.

Then the woman riding the beast which represents the new one world religion the only one that will be legal & the one government world.

Those will need to be happening as the antichrist appears & comes to full power.

Unless Obama wins the Presidency & a lot happens while he is President I don't think the world is there yet so Obama can't be the antichrist.Maybe one of the antichrists' minions.

Beleif in this prophecy requires beleif in the New Testament.That would mean being a Christian.

Without that the word antichrist has little meaning .

Here are some more links:

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=152742-1&showVid=true&clipStart=23150.00&clipStop=23766.00

just video:

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=152742-1&clipStart=23150.00&clipStop=23766.00

There have been cases where a child has been sent home for carrying a Bible.While another child is allowed to wear a head covering because of her religion.The difference is one is Christian.

While I couldn't find the case where the student was suspended it did happen.Here are some other persecutions of Christain students by public schools

http://www.rutherford.org/articles_db/press_release.asp?article_id=639

http://www.splc.org/report_detail.asp?id=973&edition=24

The school was found wrong on this one. Still they got by with it because a sticker added back to available yearbook records is not the same as the student's entry being in the yearbooks.IMO the school should have had to recall the yearbooks & reissue them corrected.

http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/expression/12845prs20040511.html

This is the one where the Muslim student was allowed to wear a head covering by court decision.

Showing government support .

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/religdisc/hearn_consent_decree_final.pdf

More where it has been allowed.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1170877836397&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/15/Southpinellas/Muslim_pupils_diverge.shtml

sequoia...u post alot of "facts" and "figures"...u wanna post ur source?? or were these all guesstimates

it would be nice if u posted where u get ur info...

A lot of what I post is from personal knowledge & some is opinion.I can usually back it up fairly well with links even if I did not find the information on the web.If you would like anything in particular referenced I will do what I can to find a link

Here are some :

Indian boarding schools

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanization_%28of_Native_Americans%29

At least one case in 1945 Bill Wright, a Pattwin Indian I don't believe he was the only student.

http://sableverity.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/american-indian-schools/

Washington refusing to be made king.

http://www.pbs.org/georgewashington/classroom/rule_of_law2.html

Everson v. Board of Education

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=330&invol=1

Slavery allowed by British empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

Threatened by teacher for carrying Bible in school

http://www.adherents.com/misc/school_houston.html

I hope they will total it for you if that's what you want.

I had a hit & run but it was during the night & an ice storm.I woke to find someone had hit & run during the night while I was asleep.

It was an older vehicle so no collision insurance on it

I made a police report but they never found the vehicle or driver that did it.

The cop even had the nerve to tell me a pickup had been hit & run (while the owner was driving it)by a vehicle about the color of mine.

Implying that the damage to my car might have been me hit & running that pickup.

I then showed the broken taillight pieces & some other wreckage debris (from the other vehicle) around the damage.Then told him I would have had to have been pretty damn quick to pick that up then leave .So I could place it around my car.

No wonder I don't like cops.

This is to show that the US government  has not always practiced "separation of church & state" .

I know the force was still being used to remove the children to these boarding schools as late as 1945 & probably later.American Indian children were forceably taken from their families & put in these schools.To "take the Indian "out of them.Where was the Supreme Court ?Certainly not there deciding to separate church & state.

This is the first decision of the Supreme Court I know of separating church & state.I guess it didn't apply to American Indians.

In 1947, in the case Everson v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court declared, "The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach."

An Indian boarding school refers to one of many schools that were established in the United States during the late 19th century to educate Native American youths according to Euro-American standards. These schools were primarily run by missionaries. It has been documented that they were traumatic to many of children who attended them, as they were forbidden to speak their native languages, taught Christianity instead of their native religions and in numerous other ways forced to abandon their Indian identity and adopt European-American culture. There are also documented cases of sexual, physical and mental abuses occurring at these schools by the US government.

Attendance in Indian boarding schools generally grew throughout the first half of the 20th century and doubled in the 1960s (10). Enrollment reached its highest point in the 1970s. In 1973, 60,000 American Indian children are estimated to have been enrolled in an Indian boarding school (10; 11). Several events in the late 1960s and mid-1970s (Kennedy Report, National Study of American Indian Education, Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act of 1975) led to more emphasis on community schools. Many large Indian boarding schools closed in the 1980s and early 1990s. In 2007, 9,500 American Indian children lived in an Indian boarding school dormitory (9). This includes 45 on-reservation boarding schools, 7 off-reservation boarding schools and 14 peripheral dormitories (9). From 1879 to the present day, hundreds of thousands of American Indians are estimated to have attended an Indian boarding school (12).

So why allow this & make a ruling about prayer in public school or suspend a student for carrying a Bible.Which is the greater violation?

so where did you buy your slaves from , Right , good old Great Britain , we ain't pure on that

I had to think in English to a couple of minutes to understand that.It means The British Empire shares the quilt of slavery,

I can't say the Brits sold all the black slaves to their colonies in what would eventually be the USA.I know other nations did.

However those colonies were a part of the British Empire before the American Revolutionary War was won in 1783.

If the British Empire had not allowed this slavery to become established it would not have been a problem for the framers of the US Constitution.Who believed all men(people ) were created equal.

The problem was the Constitution had to be ratified by states that had many slave owner's.The new type government had to get created & established to have the power to stop slavery.It did this in about 71 years.A lot less time than the British Empire allowed black slavery in the colonies.

So I do put a great deal of blame on the British Empire for the black slavery & problems the USA still has from it.

No wonder George Washington refused to be made a king.I don't think George Bush would have refused.The idea of any person being "royal" & thus superior bloodline was an anathema to Washington & should be to all Americans.

I would amen most of it but again there have not been slaves in the USA for 500 years.Do the math.

The most they can blame the USA for is from about 1789 to 1860.That is 71 years.

After that blacks weren't slaves.The faced discrimination after that but were no longer slaves.

What purposely wrong info did you post?

For ghostmaster & mudmanc4 :

In post # 46 & # 53 I posted that Isaac was also known as Israel.He was not it was Isaac's son Jacob that was also known as Israel & the father of the twelve tribes of Israel.

I wasn't intended to be antagonistic.It is an explanation of a couple of reasons the Constitution gives a citizen the right to bear arms.Since it was implied that this was because of " so much hate in America" & that sure wasn't the reason for the second amendment.The connotation of the post is there is something wrong with Americans bearing arms .

I mostly wanted to post this since "seperation of church & state" has been posted .I copied it all from other web sites but agree with it for the most part.

It shows that the framers of the Constituion & the earlier Supreme Court had a different opinion.

It is long & with references.Read it if you like or just skip it.

Recently, there have been objections to public religious expressions by legislative chaplains supported through State

budgets. These objections to legislative chaplains are very similar to one lodged with the U. S. Congress in 1852. In that

challenge, the Committees on the Judiciary in both the House and the Senate each delivered a report pertinent to this

discussion.

For example, in the House Report on March 27, 1854, it noted:

There certainly can be no doubt as to the practice of employing chaplains in deliberative bodies previous to the adoption

of the Constitution. We are, then, prepared to see if any change was made in that respect in the new order of affairs. . .

. On the 1st day of May [1789], Washington

  so much so that individuals have to be armed and prepared ?,

G/D

For one reason we are armed because law enforcement can't be everywhere at once.

I don't think they can be in the UK either.Or is law enforcement on the spot to stop every crime ?

So UK citizens have no need to be armed for the above reason.

I know law enforcement isn't able to do that here.Armed citizens who are ready & willing to use their arms usually stop the crime being attempted against them.The ones killed with their own arms weren't ready & willing.

The next reason is if the government gets enough out of hand we the people are supposed to use our arms if necessary to get the government back in line.

I think the Texas state Constitution puts it well .This part is attributed to Sam Houston.

When a government has ceased to protect the lives, liberty, and property of the people ... and ... becomes an instrument in the hands of evil rulers for their oppression ... it is a ... sacred obligation to their posterity to abolish such government and create another in its stead.

btw what does G/D mean ?

For standing with American troops.I may disagree with the USA being in Iraq but I stand with the troops.I would never do to them what was done to the Viet Nam soldeirs when they returned"

Edited by request of the original poster

Coknuck  & anyone else here's all 4 of the ghostship series:

http://www.neosurrealismart.com/modern-art-prints/?search%2F=&q=Ghost+ship+series&domains=neosurrealism.artdigitaldesign.com&sitesearch=&client=pub-4394371272710641&forid=1&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&flav=0000&sig=YjiP7uDIVlEUF2h4&cof=GALT%3A%23111111%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3AFFFFFF%3BVLC%3A999999%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3ACCCCCC%3BALC%3ACCCCCC%3BLC%3A555555%3BT%3A111111%3BGFNT%3A111111%3BGIMP%3A333333%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en&sa=Sear

mudmanc4 ; I worked on the .wmv to see if I could post it in Additional Options.

It can now be opened here.The quality didn't suffer too much.Still easier for most as a flash YouTube.

I reccommend the VLC media player to a lot of people because it will play almost anything.

It won't autoplay a Quicktime on a site that requires it though.

The error was to see if ghostmaster would catch it since he was posting about the Abrahamic decedent line.

It wasn't something hard to decipher like post #62 may have been to some people.

I thought you had it up as a flash too but I didn't see it so here's the flash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulcGldJlKiA

mudmanc4 ; I watched the one on post 54 & 74.I DLed it but then I went to YouTube So I posted it that way.If you want it as video just backspace watch back next to .com

If anyone wants to know VLC player played ithe DL with no problem.

http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=ulcGldJlKiA

In my post 46 & 53 I purposely posted some incorrect information.I thought someone might catch it & call me on it.No one did.

mudmanc4 ; Check this whole topic & you will only find one scripture cited & the scripture quoted in the same post by me.It was 3 verses but not long ones.Actually 3 sentences comprised of 64 words & not all long words.

I have made 11 posts & one had a wiki quote.

Most of what I posted was from my personal knowlege about my religion & the Bible then a small amount about other religions.Some was political.

But no half page of quotes by me or interlace of references.

If any hostility was perceived from me it was only defending my position & I thought I was polite but to the point.

I guess cholla shouldn't post any more .Whoever cholla is.

I would like someone to define AntiChrist to me without any reference to the Bible or Christianity.

I am not able to do that so I would like to see if anyone can do it.

nobody in this forum cares about my beliefs or urs...this is just a discussion

Whether in this forum or in general people should care about each others beliefs.They may agree or disagree but should care.This is even more true for Americans.This country was founded by people that cared about others beliefs.If only the writers & signers of the Declaration of Independence were in the American Revolution & no one else in the colonies cared about others beliefs. It would have been a short war.There wouldn't have been an America.

How do people have a discussion without their beliefs.

Whether a tech question where they believe a solution will fix a problem because it worked for their computer.Or something requiring an opinion like this topic.

People don't leave behind who they are when they log in.If they did there wouldn't be much of a discussion.It certainly wouldn't be very interesting.So what would be the point of even reading the forum ;much less posting.

we are not going to get into a bunch of debating the bible...bible thumping

bible thumping 

You have lots of company in this the media,the government,the schools.It seems it has became alright to silence Christians.Starting when the Supreme court decided on separation of church & state.

There have been cases where a child has been sent home for carrying a Bible.While another child is allowed to wear a head covering because of her religion.The difference is one is Christian.

This started about the mid 1950's.Lets discuss how well it has worked for schools.

There have been several school shootings some with many students killed.We didn't have those when there was more of the Bible taught in school.

Teachers have a hard time controlling classrooms to the point children that want an education have a hard time getting one.

There are drive by shootings by young people mostly.

Suicide is much higher among teens & younger children.

A lot of this can be blamed on not giving them a core belief system.

The reason I put in the examples above is to make this point tdawnaz used "bible thumping" a term definitely aimed at Christains.Usually used to silence them.The ones I listed above do the same.

Quran thumping , Torah scrolling or Veda venting were not used & you don't see those terms.

This is one of the prejudices some people have without realizing it.

they don't need backed by verses from a book...either book

Even when this was posted:

The Quran was only vaguely referred to as as "either book".

Using verses is the same as backing up what you post with a link,reference, or quote from any book.This is done in many topics.

seems to me that we have gotten way off topic here...the point of this topic is obama...we're not supposed to be debating religion, the bible, and God

how did it get off on this anyway...

Now for this topic itself:

The very nature of it is a Bible & Christian question.The AntiChrist comes from Bible verse.Anyone that does not know of it from the Bible really wouldn't understand the question.Why would the term AntiChrist be part of any other religion?

Translated a bit for those that don't understand.It means is Obama a wolf in sheep's clothing? Pretending to be a Christian to get votes when he is really a Muslim ?

Could that be because the majority of people in the USA are Christians?

ghostmaster ;

I understand what you have posted about Allah being the same as the God of Abraham.I just disagree with that.I doubt you can convince me otherwise .I doubt I can convince you otherwise .So on this point I guess it is a stalemate.

As for the expletive in the example in the post above.I never use it as it violates a core tenet of my religion.

Don't take that for I never use any expletives just not that one.I shouldn't use any but sometimes they do slip out.

tommie gorman;

A couple of comments on your post.

I have never heard that "The way of Cain, which is salvation by works" to me the way of Cain is murder.

The sin all mankind is under is the sin of Adam.Some say Eve sinned first & that's true but Eve's sin was disobedience to God.I'm not sure what Eve's fate would have been if Adam had not joined her.

Adam also committed the sin of  disobedience but the main sin he committed was that he loved Eve more than he loved God so he joined her.That is the sin all Adam's descendants have been punished for .

Next I of course believe in the crucifixion of Jesus or the cross as many times it is put.Non-Christian & even some Christians don't understand it as well when put this way.

It is the blood that was shed by Jesus while on the cross that created the new covenant or testament between God & mankind.This is a blood covenant between God &  those of mankind that believe.Similar to but much greater than the blood covenant between God & Abraham.

Another blood covenant was the Passover.

The blood covenant being the strongest of covenets with God.

It is faith in this that gives salvation by grace.

The death & resurrection of Jesus is the miracle that proved the covenant.So faith in the miracle is also necessary.

I might as well cover one more thing.I would like to see Christians begin to use Jesus the Christ so Christ wouldn't be used like it is Jesus's last name.

tdawnaz ;I'm not trying to be argumentative.But "holy spirit mother in heaven" would be a strange choice of words for a child that age who had not heard them somewhere. I'm not saying all together like you said them .Those are pretty religious words not to have heard them somewhere. Maybe separately like holy spirit one time & mother in heaven another.

If you say this is not a possibility I will just accept that.

I'm not a believer of the mother earth philosophy or past lives but I know many are .Don't mistake that for saying I'm not in favor of taking care of the environment.I certainly think the people of the Earth are doing a poor job of that.I'm not sure of the best way to fix that.

Sequoia, we may not agree on religion, but we do agree on this.

We have been fighting pointless proxy wars since WW2, and its time to stop.  It isn't our job, or right to enforce our beliefs on any other country.  If they want freedom, let them do it the way we did, or wait until they ask for help, like we did with the French.

Glad we agree on something.

So the Korean war was pointless? What about vietnam, Afghanistan, The fist gulf war. These were all wars to get invaders out of another country, that couldn't defend them selves.

This requires an answer that will seem to contradict itself.

The loss of life & limb of American soldiers is never pointless.Neither is the loyalty to the USA that got them to be willing to do that.

The point is they should never have been sent in the first place.The US Constitution has nothing in it about being responsible to defend other countries whether they can defend themselves or not.We are only supposed to defend ourselves if attacked.That would be what we did in WW2.The wars since the USA was not attacked.

Of course the USA was attacked on 911 but :

Are we at war with those who did the attack?I have not seen proof that Iraq under Saddam planned the attack.

There were more Saudi Arabians among the terrorists of 911 .Why didn't the USA go to war with them?

I bet there are alqada in the USA should we hold ourselves responsible & attack ourselves?

The point is it is only the responsibility of the USA to take care of itself.Butting into other countries business has only worked against us & weakened our country.

The only way the people in the countries that are too weak to defend themselves will ever have freedom is when they win it for themselves.That way they have paid the price in lives & blood.This helps them remember.

Think about all the lives & blood Americans gave to make this country what it was & could be again.

I think maybe it has been too long since blood has been spilled on our soil in the fight for freedom.

I don't know how much farther it will have to go before an army of angry Americans marches on Washington takes out Congress & most of the rest of the government.Then elects a new group with the warning We did this once & we can do it again.

If you think this is only what I beleive here is something from the Texas Constitution & attributed to Sam Houston:

When a government has ceased to protect the lives, liberty, and property of the people ... and ... becomes an instrument in the hands of evil rulers for their oppression ... it is a ... sacred obligation to their posterity to abolish such government and create another in its stead.

here is another quote by someone I will leave unnamed:

"here in western lands men were fighting ,again the age-old struggle for freedom and for civilization, which is one that always must fought for. The weak, and those unwilling to make the struggle, soon resign their liberties for the protection of poweful men or paid armies; they begin by being protected, they end by being subjected."

There actually isn't much written in the Bible describing the Holy Spirit.So I can't argue with your concept that much.

The Bible says this about the Holy Ghost which is the same as the Holy Spirit.It doesn't sound motherly.I thought you might find it interesting.

Acts 2:2-4

"2. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. "

Someone who isn't Christian probably does have a different concept of the Holy Spirit if they believe in that being at all.

tdawnaz; you did say at the time you said this you were barely able to talk.

Would it be a correct assumption that meant you were a young child at the time?

If so I take it you were being taught Christianity at the time.

I voted no the same way I wouldn't have ever gone to Iraq.This time or the first time .

The USA would have been better off to stay out of everybodies business.

If we had done that since WW2 the USA would be a lot better off & the Twin Towers would still be standing.& at least 8000 more Americans would be alive.As well as other causualties of the war.

The Bush family has many business ties to Saudi Arabia.The Saudis didn't want other Muslims mad at them for attacking Iraq & Sadam.So Bush did it for them.No telling what the payoff to his family oil business has been & will be.

My personal beleif is Bush & Saudi Arabia was in on the whole plan to hit the Towers .They knew that would make most Americans mad enough to go along with the war against Iraq.

Or does anyone beleive Bush could have went to war with Iraq if 911 had not happened?

The Jews did not give God a name.God gave the Jews His name through divinely inspired scripture.

On the Islam side why would they want their god to be the same as Israels'' God or the same God that Christians worship ?

The Muslims hate both Jews & Christians or anyone that worships differently than them.

If Allah & Jehovah or Yahweh are the same then why do the Muslims hate Jews & Christians ?

Of course Muslims kill other Muslims that are a different sect so I guess that might explain that.

I guess I can't be convinced that Allah is the same as my God.

To me Allah is a god taken from the pagan Meccans .

The last Wiki link was mostly about what the quran had to say about Allah but it did say this.

Islam teaches that its God is the same god worshiped by the members of other Abrahamic religions such as Christianity and Judaism (29:46).[9

This is not universally accepted by non-Muslims.

The last sentence would include my beliefs.

The trinity is interpreted some different in Christian denominations.

My own beliefs are there is

God the Father His name is Jehovah or Yahweh.

There is Jesus the only begotten son of God.

There is the Holy Spirit .As far as I know the Holy Spirit doesn't have a name.

I believe them to be separate beings but that may be a man's definition.To actually know how spirit beings of such power that the universe was created by God (Jehovah or Yahweh) through Jesus are actually " physically" connected is beyond my understanding.In that I don't feel I am alone in the lack of ability to conceive that.

Maybe when I get to the other side & am spirit myself I will understand better.