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Don't let the facts interfere with your spiel


tommie gorman
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Im not a liberal, so no need to preach any right wing fear rhetoric to me. 

Don't get me wrong, I believe in limited, but effective government, and none of the current candidates will provide that.  It's a sad state of affairs when one has to choose who will do the least amount of damage. 

No need to go on the defense, I stated those things for the benifit of those who have no clue, I just used your post as a vehicle, K?  And thats exactly how I see the liberal / generally democrat outlook on things, by past experience. And what they are saying they will try and accomplish.

And it is a sad state, but we only have ourselves to blame, we sit here and take it.  Take a look at <a href=http://www.testmy.net/forum/index.php?topic=22776.msg263321;topicseen#msg263321>Tommies thread</a>

, makes you wonder who promoted half the issues we have now.

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That wasn't defense, as I have no allegience to defend.  :shock:

This country will never improve unless we begin rebuilding the middle class.  Sadly though, that won't happen with either party.  The dems will just made the middle class pay for the poor, and the republicans will make the middle class pay for what tax breaks they give the rich.

Neither side has a good economic plan.  The only way to really stimulate and maintain a national economy, is to create jobs.  It has been proven time and time again.  (see industrial revolution, post depression, etc..)  I believe the next big revolution will be an energy revolution, because the impending oil crisis and global warming will call for it.

Goverment regulations, and trade agreements aren't going to help the economy. (dems)

Money will never trickle down (reps) from Big B, or the rich, because the rich want to stay rich, or get richer.  I don't blame them, because it's human nature......

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You had my attention until the global warming thingy, thats the best wide spread mass influence bullshit to ever hit the face of the earth.  :2funny: :2funny:

Anyone hear how the founder of the weather channel is setting a case against Gore for lieing his ass off?

Oh yea, we all know that the  earth actually cooled off one degree in this past year , right? ok, just checking.   Or is that having something to do w/ global wasrming as well?  :2funny: :2funny:

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link to info on global cooling please?

AND

no no no.....Im not on the liberal global warming bandwagon side.....im a pragmatist...

We only have a small sample size of recorded temperatures over the years to go by, so we can't definatevly prove what is causing the earth to slowly warm...or that it isn't a natureal phenomenon...

and as John McCain puts it, even if we cut emissions, burn cleaner fuels, and invest in alternative energy, have we really done a bad thing?  Was it really a waste....I think not...

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Al Gore says global warming is a planetary emergency. It is difficult to see how this can be so when record low temperatures are being set all over the world. In 2007, hundreds of people died, not from global warming, but from cold weather hazards.

Since the mid-19th century, the mean global temperature has increased by 0.7 degrees Celsius. This slight warming is not unusual, and lies well within the range of natural variation. Carbon dioxide continues to build in the atmosphere, but the mean planetary temperature hasn't increased significantly for nearly nine years. Antarctica is getting colder. Neither the intensity nor the frequency of hurricanes has increased. The 2007 season was the third-quietest since 1966. In 2006 not a single hurricane made landfall in the U.S.

** South America this year experienced one of its coldest winters in decades.

** In Buenos Aires, snow fell for the first time since the year 1918.

** Johannesburg, South Africa, had the first significant snowfall in 26 years.

** Australia experienced the coldest June ever

** In northeastern Australia, the city of Townsville underwent the longest period of continuously cold weather since 1941.

** Last January, $1.42 billion worth of California produce was lost to a devastating five-day freeze.

** In April, a killing freeze destroyed 95 percent of South Carolina's peach crop, and 90 percent of North Carolina's apple harvest.

** At Charlotte, N.C., a record low temperature of 21 degrees Fahrenheit on April 8 was the coldest ever recorded for April, breaking a record set in 1923.

** On June 8, Denver recorded a new low of 31 degrees Fahrenheit. Denver's temperature records extend back to 1872.

** On Dec. 7, St. Cloud, Minn., set a new record low of minus 15 degrees Fahrenheit. On the same date, record low temperatures were also recorded in Pennsylvania and Ohio.

** Nov. 24, in Meacham, Ore., the minimum temperature was 12 degrees Fahrenheit colder than the previous record low set in 1952.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20071219/COMMENTARY/10575140

Please read this link , solidifies the fact we are actually cooling off! http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

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Don't let the facts interfere with your spiel eh?

1st link is an opinion piece that I've read before, so...meh....

2nd article is interesting, (although the examples it gives are weather abnormalities, NOT climate events) but there are many factors you have to consider, which are even covered in the article.  Greenhouse gases aren't the only thing that effect the climate.  Solar activity plays a major role, and when that declines, the Earth will cool.  1 year's worth of data proves NOTHING.  (like I said earlier, you would need centuries of data to prove anything) 

It has been proven however that the greenhouse gases in our atmosphere have been increasing over the years, and they DO contribute to global warming.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/aggi/

It is a fact that greenhouse gases are increasing, and if deforrestation continues, what is going to absorb all that carbon dioxide?

Like I said, even if global warming doesn't exhist, is it really a bad thing for us to cut emissions and reduce the use of carbon fuels?

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Thats the bad part of a conversation such as this, who knows what to believe anymore, both sides make great cases, and yet the truth is still unknown.

Sure , it wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing if we cleaned up our air, thats kinda a given, but , IMO, this planet is alive in many more ways than we silly little humans will ever come close to realising. And so she will consume anything that rivals her.

You have to respect that about the earth, were only here for a little while, and we cannot kill her, unless of course we blast her to bits.

Even if we were to set off all the nukes we have on earth, the planet would go dark for quite some time, taking the eyes of the human race with it. Eventually she will bring forth the life giving nutrients that once formed everything we know, and thrive once more.

EDIT:

YES,as a child, I watched the hell out of the earths closest friend, and genius, Carl Sagan, we miss you Mr. Sagan.

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Thats the bad part of a conversation such as this, who knows what to believe anymore, both sides make great cases, and yet the truth is still unknown.

That is what is wrong with how debate is taught in this country, you don't have to be right as long as the other person is wrong. "Truth is subjective"  Therefore are we get is a bunch of rhetorical babel.  

And although I don't agree with some things Obama says (whether or not he means them or even if are his own words), some of the points he makes are valid, we have to reach out to those who disagree with us as well as those who are our allies.  I also agree with some of the things Clinton says, especially with having real discussions about issues, not just rhetoric.  (although discussions involve listening, something she doesn't do well at all)  I like many things about McCain as well.  (he is a true moderate, whether you like it, or not)

The problem, is that America has created a paradox, in that the people (at least the educated) do not trust the government, yet we are the ones who create it, and have the power to change it, but we don't.

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Now that was a good post! Mostly, because the bigger picture about Clinton is they have way to many ties in way to many places that can and will effect way to many people.

Obama?, geeze , to me he is nothing more than a figure for the lost to hang onto, because they are lost, and need someone to hold there hand, kiss them goodnight, and tuck them in. And when there sleeping? take there toys and givem to who he thinks needs them .

Now, I just got this e-mail, I think it fits here well. Funny as hell too.

Five surgeons from big cities are discussing who makes the best

patients to operate on.

The first surgeon, from New York , says, "I like to see accountants on

my operating table because when you open them up, everything inside is

numbered."

The second, from Chicago , responds, "Yeah, but you should try

electricians!  Everything inside them is color coded."

The third surgeon, from Dallas , says, "No, I really think librarians

are the best, everything inside them is in alphabetical order".

The fourth surgeon, from Los Angeles chimes in: "You know, I like

construction workers..  Those guys always understand when you have a

few parts left over."

But the fifth surgeon, from Washington, DC shut them all up when he

observed: "You're all wrong.  Politicians are the easiest to operate

on. There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains and no spine, and the

head and the ass are interchangeable

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