France Enemy or Ally of USA

[php]

why?

[cak46]

Don't know what the info was, but could have been dis-information

[peepnklown]

The Iraq War wasn

[paladin]

France and a lot of those countries over there haven't gotten over USA saving their ass in WWII.

On top of that only one has paid us back for rebuilding their countries after the war.  Heck I don't

blame them tho, I wouldn't have paid my creditors either if they would have let me get away with

it.  Thank the good LORD I don't have any now.

[cholla]

If we have anyone to blame for the terrorist attacks sadly we have to blame the United States government

peepnklown: Do you really beleive this? How about blaming the terorists for their own actions.Iraq & other middle eastern countries have trained & financed terrorists where is their responsibility.You can not blame this on the USA. This is like blaming the victem of a crime for being there instead of the criminal Or the gun for commiting the crime.I would see us be protectionists as stated in my previous post. Since our government is not going to do this we may be attacked by terrorists but the blame is still on the criminal terrorists. Cholla

[coknuck]

Cholla, You tell him

[netmasta]

peepnklown: Do you really beleive this? How about blaming the terorists for their own actions.Iraq & other middle eastern countries have trained & financed terrorists where is their responsibility.You can not blame this on the USA. This is like blaming the victem of a crime for being there instead of the criminal Or the gun for commiting the crime.I would see us be protectionists as stated in my previous post. Since our government is not going to do this we may be attacked by terrorists but the blame is still on the criminal terrorists. Cholla

I think we at least partly do have to blame the U.S. government. During the last 2 decades (at least) or so, the government has virtually ignored terrorist "chatter" until 9/11. They thought that something like that would never happen here. For whatever reason the U.S. seems to think (we are invincible) to terrorism.

Sometimes I feel ashamed that we in the U.S. act like we rule the world. Us Americans need to wake up and realize that the rest of the world matters. Some of us also need to realize how lucky we are compaired to third world countries.

[cholla]

netmasta : The US might be to blame for not being ready to shoot commercial airplanes down when the are offcourse & don't respond.This is still a hard decision to make.How would you like the job of making that decision.This would have ment losing about 800 lives  instead of adding 3000 more too the total.Since this hadn't happend here before I don't think anyone was ready to make that decision.

Now to address the second part of your response.I beleive in protectionism (that means as little involvment with other countries as possible(as simple as it can be stated).But as stated in this topic I beleive the USA,Europeon Union & theUN

are going for a one goverment planet.

My ancestors were hear before the American Revolution the native American ones a long time before.These people worked hard ,fought ,died to develope this country into what it is now.Trying to make it so each generation would have it better than the last one.The citizens (past & present) of other countries including third world ones have not been willing to do this or they would have it better or all have died fighting for a better government.They now want it the easy way by coming here for example how many American citizens have you heard of trying to sneak accross the Mexico border to have a better life.The reason we have what we do is our ancestors were willing to make the sacrifices the did.The native Americans sacraficed the most because they lost all of an almost unblemished land.And I sure don't expect to see them get it back with each of the nations having their own new democracy.Like the plan for Iraq.  Cholla

[pitbull481]

i dont care if france or other countries dont like us. i'm happy as long as i got a home, my wife, food, work, and have SEX.  :D

[Shug7272]

i dont care if france or other countries dont like us. i'm happy as long as i got a home, my wife, food, work, and have SEX.  :D

Now that is EXACTLY what I said a page or replies ago. I don't know why anyone bothers to argue politics. Very few will agree with you and your not gonna change the minds of those who disagree. Its a topic for fools. Kinda like arguing over who has the best french fries, everyone has their own opinion and they aint gonna change it.

[cak46]

Another one and a half cents, for what its worth.  The French government  will do whatever they think is in their best interests, as will the US. government.  Didn't France have some big oil deals with the former government in Iraq?  Would they be an ally to their own detriment?  Probably not.  Would the US government?  I think this is what the Iraq war is about.  I believe that the war was started and is being fought for two reasons:  Humanitarian ideals (to stop the daily bloodshed that had been wrought by Saddam and his goons), and to establish a seed of democracy where none existed before.       

In most every instance where we have helped another country in war (and recovery), we have gotten shafted in the long run, one way or the other.  Protectionism is a good concept, but sooner or later expansionist ideologies will come to bear and not having world allies, even tenuos ones like France, is a bad idea.  Also, we do not have the resources or manufacturing in-country that we had 20-40 years ago.  It would be next to impossible to separate out from the "global economy".  Protectionism, as far as strengthening the borders, is a good thing.  The US does need to slow the flow of illegal aliens coming into the US. 

[paladin]

Its all about the OIL folks, just look, you have 2 OIL men running your country.  Its

also about revenge on sadam for plotting to kill bush 1 in the 90's.  OIL rules folks

whether we like it or not.  There has never been peace very long in those countries

and there never will be.  :roll: :roll: :( :(

[TheArtworkGuy]

they'll be drillin in alaska soon

[Shug7272]

Its all about the OIL folks, just look, you have 2 OIL men running your country.  Its

also about revenge on sadam for plotting to kill bush 1 in the 90's.  OIL rules folks

whether we like it or not.  There has never been peace very long in those countries

and there never will be.  :roll: :roll: :( :(

:haha: Ya oil prices have really gone down since we took Iraq.

[paladin]

:roll:

:haha: Ya oil prices have really gone down since we took Iraq.

Thats because D. Rumsfeld and P. Wolfowitz screwed up the planning and also their

administrator afterwards, now they can't leave or get the OIL out either.                                                                                  G. W. and Dick C. were talking about invading Iraq before they were ever elected.  Per

their terrorist adviser that they ran off because he wanted to tell the truth.

[cholla]

Hey all: I think the higher oil prices are the way the rest of the middle eastern countries are using to finance terrorism since the money Iraq& Sadam was putting toward this has stopped for now. Or we can buy the media 's & governments latest reason the Chinese are using so much more than they were.you know driving down their new super interstate in their giant suvs. Cholla

[peepnklown]

Cholla

The United States government has funded terrorist in other countries to overthrow governments we didn

[cholla]

peepnklown: I am aware of USA funding the  people  they want in power in certain countries.That is something that might be considered in the USA's best interest.It seems to be the opinion some have that it was OK for France to act in their best interest but like usual not for the USA.Even though this has backfired on us I am against any foreign funding by the USA myself.

cak46: My problem is not with France acting in their best interest if they had been upfront that any information they got they would pass on if it was in their best interest,If this classified information caused the death of American troops how many would have to be killed  before France would be wrong for acting in their best interest?

Would it be OK for a United States citizen to sell N.Korea the missle & nuclear bomb blueprints of the USA's best .

If it was in their best interest you know for money .Or would this be crossing the line of best interest?They could then take the money & go to another country to be out of range.I think most would consider this a crime.The point is its not OK for a country or individual to do anything just because they consider it to be in their best interest.

Unless you beleive inthe law of the jungle theory where nothing is wrong as long as you survive. Cholla

[Stank_Ho]

Cholla

The United States government has funded terrorist in other countries to overthrow governments we didn

[budbem]

Jimmy Carter stated when he was president that threat to our foriegn oil supplies would be considered an attack on the U.S. and could be met with military action .  The Iraq war is about oil but not in the way many people understand. The U.S. dollar is on the verge of collapse when compared to the euro.  The Opec oil supply is a dollar backed commodity (including Iraq's oil)  Saddam wanted to back his oil supply with the euro (Opec still may do so)  , the euro being much stronger then the US Dollar-  If he had done that then we would have catastrophic disaster here in the U.S.  Hence Saddam was a threat to the United States and its oil interests and had to go.  Plain and simpe. The fault of Bush is that he just didnt tell the people that this was the problem and the need to get Saddam out.  France knows why we removed Saddam and also knows our administration was not clear to the US people for the real reason of the invasion. So that gives them some political leverage.  When Opec bases the oil supplies on the Euro instead of the dollar  we in the U.S. will see a HUGE gas increase - est $8.00 -10,00 a gallon and will cause our infrostructure to collapse.  But to answer your question YES France is an allie - But they are in a nice bargaining position at the moment.

[netmasta]

Absolutely. Osama was traned and financed by the U.S. to help fight the Russians.

Why the hell did we help Bin Landen anyway? We also helped Saddam invade Kuwate in 1991 I think? It seems like we like to start wars just for fun for some stupid reason IMO.

[cak46]

Cholla:  The US governement made a conscious choice to give "classified" information to France with full knowledge of Frances' history and their opposition to action against  Iraq.  For whatever reason, I hope that it was in the best interests of the US (dis-information, real information, whatever).  If it wasn't, then the US government is to blame for disseminating secrets they shouldn't have and if troopers died because of it, then it is on our governments head.  Let's face it....  we only know what our government wants us to know.  This is most likely true for any government in the world.  I just hope that the people in charge act with honor and the interests of the US as a nation. 

Of course, individuals selling secrets is not acceptable.  But, individuals have been doing this type of thing for years now.... selling secrets to other countries.  Some are caught and prosecuted, some most likely get away with it.   

I agree with you, Cholla.  It is not ok for a country's government  to do just ANYTHING to further their interests.  But we're talking about France passing alleged "classified" info. to Saddam which may or may not have incurred US troop losses, not nuking some third world country back into the Ice Age just because they peed on the lawn.   

There is a line to not cross and every country and every indivudual draws that line for themselves.  Has France crossed mine into enemy territory.... Not yet, but the jury is still out.   

[Shug7272]

My winky hurts when I wee wee.

[netmasta]

My winky wants would peace lol!

[Shug7272]

World peace??? Na, screw that then I couldnt make fun of the mexicans for always starting fights.