grounding

[lance49726]

Rev

      what is your take on grounding the dish meaning earth grounding.

[The Reverend]

Hey there,

If you are talking about the newer .98m dishes, the coaxial grounding and grounding block are all that is needed to keep static off the dish. All other's much use 10gauge copper wire running to a 5 foot copper rod (and many SWEAR that it works best to then run another copper wire from the grounding stake to the House Electrical Ground to prevent "looping."  (That's sounds pretty far out to me unless the dish is terribly close (like 20 feet) from the House Grounding Rod).  And that's "by the book" info that installers all use, and it is also "code." (OSHA and FCC).

Cheers Lance!

[lance49726]

Mine are just grounded from the dish to the grounding block and i have never had any problems.

I know that DW installers are suppose to ground the dish from the grounding block to a grounding rod or your house ground but alot of them do not.

*band installers which i'am do not have to do that it is not part of the standard installation.

[cholla]

hi lance49726: It's nearly impossible to ground something too good.Most of the time when it is not done as well or better than it has to be is cost.I don't have satellite so I don't know how much better grounding would increase performance on satellite.I have dial-up & I used a 6 ft  copper over steel ground rod & conected a 10 gauge solid copper wire to my NID .This helped the phones & the computer.The phone company had it grounded to my outside water faucet.So spend the little extra on good grounding at least on your own system. 

Cholla

[The Reverend]

Bear in mind that the DW6000's using .98m dishes get ALL THEY NEED for grounding via the coaxial cable grounding wire, plus the grounding block.  No need for the heavy wiring anymore unless you want to make your dish into a lightning attractor!  lol.... But, when all else fails yes, ground the hell out of it to see if it makes a diff.  Usuall not with the DW6000's.....MAYBE with the DW4000 and 4020 series.

The Reverend

[cholla]

hi reverend : I don't know if better grounding would attract lightning to a dish.Maybe if the dish was the tallest object in the area.Even then at least the good grounding gives the lighting a path to go.Better to melt your ground wires than to come along the coax and decide the one at the computer is the best ground rod it can find.I don't have any experence with a satellite dish other than for TV  but I'm betting a direct lightening strike causes enough damage to to send you looking for a new dish even if you tried to insulate it instead of ground it,The coax is probably grounded to earth some way whatever the system you use unless you have purposly insulated it. Through the house electrical wiring if nowhere else .Even on an old 2 wire AC electrical system the common runs directly to earth ground  this is the wire that runs from the meter to the ground rod .The only way around this would be a system ran completely on batteries. Cholla 

[The Reverend]

Well, see how you are looking at it, but anytime you ground metal that is suspended you create a lightening rod.  POTENTIAL TO GROUND determines the possibility of being hit by a strike, so I don't ground my dish.  My insurance covers me if it fries the modem and system (plus I have 40 foot ground rods behind my antennaes because they both sit on top of an 80 foot tower ....so I let the rods and tower take the hits and pray it does't "tickle" my "radio"!!!!!  LOL

RULE:  IF YOU GROUND IT >>>>THE CHANCES OF IT BECOMING A LIGHTNING ROAD ARE 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers!

The Reverend

[resopalrabotnick]

or you can ground it like a grounding strap, they should, if they are worth something anyway, have a resistor of around a megaohm. this is to keep a static charge trickling out, but prevents you getting shocked if you touch a highly charged part. if you are using the method of just holding on to a grounded metal rod, and you for example grab a capacitor, you will get a healthy cross the body shock, which can be quite lethal. (can tike as little as a 30 milliamp charge to make ya croak). so ideally, you are grounded only by the strap via the resistor, and you will be safe®. don't go taking this as an invitation to grab live components. you can still damage the or you. also, if you are using a grounding strap, it will come with a mat you place the comp or whatever on, that provides the same protection.

also the baggies electronic gadgets come in. they are metallically coated, but they have a high resistance also, to dissipate a charge slowly. otherwise you could be charged, touch the bag, and kill the component.

so if you ground your dish using a sufficiently strong and heavy duty resistor, also large enough to preventthe lightning from simply arcing around it, you would be able to dissipate a charge while reducing the lightning path. or, as the rev said, put a lightning rod above and behind the dish, to not block its los (duh) and protect it that way. i do not have the technical knowledge that pertains to calculating a lightning rods protective area, but maybe someone else here will be able to offer you advice on how to scale it. it's all based on a volume extending outward from the rod, encompassing a safe space it creates. etc. etc. etc. yadda yadda.

[The Reverend]

I put up the rods according to a book with specs (duals) and at the top you'll find dissapators that try to repel static charges and even lightening to a degree. They look alot like metal (silver) blows on Christmas gifts. heheh...

I will find my manual (I think) scan it then post it.  It's easy enough to follow.  If I did then then anyone can do it......

Also, when you are messing with potentially high voltage, do NOT grasp the wire with your hand.  Tap it with the back of your hand so that IF it is carrying a charge it does not cause your muscles to CLAMP so that you cannot let go of the sucker.  Using the backhand technique, you may get a tickle, but at least you won't be 'clamped' to the wire by your own muscles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  O M G !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

The Reverend

*In a nutshell, if your dish is 5 feet tall, (including the mounting post), then you should put two 15 foot posts spaced 10 feet apart with SEPARATE grounding straps running to "earth"  (DO NOT JOIN THEM IN THE EVENT OF A DOUBLE STRIKE)!  That's a "rule of thumb" that is close enough ......"fire from the sky" is not "picky" in the least ...but it does love golfers.

[cholla]

Hi reverend: If I put up a dish I like your systemof lightening rods the dual ones sound like a good idea.On old style outdoor television antennas they had what they called a lightening arrestor.I haven't looked for anything like this for a dish but I bet something like this is available .The only dish I have is a small one for television.I just use an amplified indoor antenna for local channels since neither dish service offers all of them.

:idea:I did have one hint I learned in a saftey class at a garage where I was a mechanic.If you do find yourself clamped on to a wire lift the opposite foot up off the groundfrom the hand you have clamped on the wire.This allows the current to run down one side of your body so it doesn't cross your heart.I have not personally tested this nor do I plan to but it as supposed to help.

:cool:Cholla

[The Reverend]

Say cholla,

You only need to put an extra space between the Cool Smiley and your name in order for it to appear as an icon instead of what you see.

[cholla]

Hi reverend I know we have about ran this post into the ground hehe .I think I know why you use reverend for your user name.I think a lightning strike would put religion in the ones blessed with survivng.

The "one foot trick" is probably for lower current like 125V & maybe 250V( I know it still travels at light speed) . The thing with lifting the one foot is it routes the electricity down one side of the body.This is supposed to act like a defibulator especially if it has already crossed your heart before you lift the opposite foot.It is supposed to restablish normal rythem.At least thats the info the instructer in the safety class gave.Besides if you are about to kick the bucket you need to lift one foot so you can give it a good kick.hehe

I wanted to ask about the foil would this help a small dish used for TV the Dish itself IS "plastic" ii think they call it a DSS.I get good reception with it.The switch box that connects the coax to the dish and the receiver is grounded to the large conduit at my electric meter.With about a12 gauge solid copper

[The Reverend]

Heheh...I was just teasing you because what you are speaking of is part of all electrical safety courses at one point or another. IT DOES NOT WORK, but in theory they "claim" that it does.

[cholla]

Hi reverend : I will try the foil to see if it makes the reception even better.I bet Radio shack would have the right glue .Might be awhile for me to get to it since I am not having any problem with the dish.I just like to make things work better when I can.

Your right it wasn't a survivor that was presenting the class & he didn't have one for his guest speaker either.So far I have been fortunate with electricity only lightly bit but sometimes that is all it takes.My dad who was an apliance repairman ( like the Maytag one but a lot busier) was baddly bitten by 220V working on a dryer .the burn took a long time to heal.But I guess thats not too bad for doing it for 35 years.  Cholla

[resopalrabotnick]

since rev is getting into all this, some more rules.

if caught in a thunderstorm in the open, no depression to crouch in, do the following. put your feet as close together as possible, crouch down, arms around your knees.

do not, under any circumstances, lie down. if you do, you may be slightly less likely to be struck, but if it strikes a tree or some such near you, the current will travel along the ground. the fun part is that the body conducts better than the ground, so, electricity always looking for the easy way out, the charge will bridge the six feet or so of ground you cover through your body. mhh, makes me feel tingly all over just thinking about it.

if there is a depression, of course choose that to crouch in. do not stand near trees or the like. even if it hits the tree instead of you, and grounds itself through the tree, the tree sap boiling away will cause largish chunks of wood to seperate from the trunk at a surprising rate of speed. (the sucker blows up)

slightly more likely than a lightning strike, you come across a live downed powerline. first of all, try not to touch it. (duh)

but then the problem poses itself, how best to leave the danger zone. the answer? hop.

looks silly, but akes sense. the reason: if you walk away, your legs will form a bridge across a piece of ground that the electricity will be only too happy to make use of. hopping or leaping away in bounds means that since you jump off the ground, then land in new spot, no arc is created by your body, so you're good to go.

all this going on about arcing, how is it that them damned birds sit on a powerline all fucking day without turning into something akin to a roast chicken? well, electricity takes the easy way, so why should it bother with the relatively high resistance body of a bird if it can just zip underneath along that nice thick wire. of course, should the bird be unlucky enough to perch very close to a grounded part of a pole, thereby creating a space just small enough for the charge to arc from the line through the bird to the ground, well, don't you hate the stink of burning feathers?

the open field problem is one that often proves deadly for livestock. see the thunderstrom, see the lightning strike, see the cattle or whatever standing there on all four with their legs far apart, hooves stuck into mud, well, they get zapped by charges traveling along the surface, plain and simple.

other hazards include electrical fires. do not try to extinguish an electrical fire, especially one of higher voltage, with an extinguisher not rated for it, and maintain proper distance. the powder in an extinguisher will carry a charge to a point, so if you get too close, you can have the power arcing from the fusebox/transformer or whatever to yourself. ouchies.

then there is the incredibly devastating exploding wire. this is unlikely to happen to you, but fun nonetheless. take say 10 feet of fairly heavy gauge wire, place it on the ground, and attach one end to a good ground. now run say 110 kv at high amperage to the other end, and you will get a bright flash, bang, and a trench several inches deep, depending on the wire. this is because such a load will cause the wire to heat quickly, in effect flashing the metal to steam.

the moral of the story, if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing, call a professional. it is money well spent, as it will kepp you from paying a much higher price.

[MICROWAVE]

IMHO the first choice to ground "anything" is an earth ground (rod), second to a cold water pipe, third to electrical pipe(direct home run)..... I have seen many instances where ppl went for many years without any ground for electronic equipment and thought all was OK until the components got fried. The worst case of lightning damage I had ever seen was lightning hitting a Church steeple and we could actually see the path of the power where it cooked the card file in the phone system and computers and most other electronic componets......... ya cant fool Mother nature.....

Microwave

if caught in a thunderstorm in the open, no depression to crouch in, do the following. put your feet as close together as possible, crouch down, arms around your knees.

[resopalrabotnick]

i was thinking exactly that, but decided it would detract from the post.

[The Reverend]

Couldn't have posted a better Electrical Satety blurb if I had tried.  TY for the life-saving input resopalrabotnick!

"The Rev"

[resopalrabotnick]

hm. one more thing. the ground fault interrupter.

this is a potentially ass saving piece of electrical equipment, cheap and maintenance free.

in these past posts we have learned that even a relatively low amperage, say 30mA can already leave you dead as a doornail.

think of the most likely place you are going to come in contact with an electrical current. thinking maybe kitchen and bathroom? that's right. these are the areas of the house where you have a bunch of handheld or stationary appliances around handy pools of water.

these areas should have their circuits equipped with ground fault interrupters.

what is the gfi? it is essentially a modified electronic fuse. it not only makes sure that the maximum current of say 16 amps isn't exceeded on the circuit, it also constantly compares the amperage on the positive and the negative wire. if these are off by as little as 30 mA, or less depending on the rating, it trips the circuit. what is the result of this? well, anytime an appliance has a fault that causes part of the current it is drawing to ground out, through it's case or heave forbid through you, it is drawing a certain amperage on the positive side, but on the negative less than that is coming back, because part of it is grounding out. this is what the gfi recognizes.

this can prevent an accident from turning into a tragedy, and it is a good idea to have at least rooms with sinks, baths etc equipped this way, but it makes sense to add workshops, children's rooms, heck, the whole house. if properly wired, PLEASE do not try this at home, you can jab your finger in a socket and get stung, but the socket will be shut off before anything worse happens.

[xmechanic]

I think I may have the hot setup (pardon the pun) for  lightning control.  Being an ex-CB nut, I still have a 25 foot tower with a 5/8 wave ground plane antenna and on the coax coming down from the antenna I have a lightning arrestor that ties into the center conductor of the coax and the other side goes to ground.  We tend to have extremely powerful lightning hits here in the mountains of Western NM to the point of blowing apart 150 year old pinion trees (I actually witnessed this and it scared the crap out of me).  Anyway, the lightning arrestor bleeds off large amounts of static before they can build into a full-strength strike.  I've seen my neighbors house across the street get hit twice in the last 3 years and a transformer 60 yards up the street get blown off the pole (at which point I lost power too) , but never has it hit on my property, and never have I lost a modem or any electrical appliance as a result of lightning. Now that I've said this, the first spring thunderstorm we get will toast everything in the house, but it was nice while it lasted. 

[The Reverend]

Resopalrabotnick,

Excellent series of posts, all of it dead on the money.  Your CB array is acting in the same fashion the Faraday Cage and 'dissapators" at the top of each mast on my ship do....they discharge static accumulation and deter a strike elsewhere....usually to port for some odd reason.  She taken plenty of hits, but then again when you are asea with aluminum poles stuck 134feet into the air they are going to get hit no matter what you do!  heheh...

NICE and TY!

The Reverend