Mustang GT vs. Pontiac firebird

[dlewis23]

It sounds to me like you are a young fella.  If I was you for 12k I would buy a cheap late 80-90 mustang with a 6 cyl.  insure it then build it. you can do this with a camero or firebird.  So ya aint paying 3k a year in insurance.

thats what i think he should do, but if he shops around and goes to a few car auctions he can gat a V8 5.0 for for $2000-3000

[amc11890]

i have plenty time to consider and yeah i am only 15 yrs old, will be 16 in nov but waited till jan to get permit.  but i dont know how much this is going to help but i took drivers ed and i have higher than 3.0gpa both of which offer a insurance cut.  Im also relived because i was able to take my permanent license test in drivers ed and now i am done with it.

[tommie gorman]

Yep, cheapest way to build a road rocket today. Add a couple goodies and gone. I would prefer replacing the 5.0 with a 351 but whatever. Extra 49 cubes never hurt anyone. 

I forgot to mention the 351 Windsor is the same size block, easy cubic inch gain.

[dlewis23]

but i dont know how much this is going to help but i took drivers ed and i have higher than 3.0gpa both of which offer a insurance cut.

that will help out a little bit, but it all depends on what car you get, if you get a car with a huge motor with alot of power and goes real fast, the discount isnt gonna help becuse your insurance is going to be expensive no matter what you do.

And trust me as a kid who has the very fast cars i know.

[tommie gorman]

Like dlewis23 said, if you have a 5.0 the insurance will be cheaper from the smaller engine. And put a 351 in its place, they will never know. You have to be damned good to tell the difference. I took out a 390 from my 68 mustang and swapped it for a 427 ford. They had no idea. Gained 130 HPand 37 cu. in. Lost about 2 mpg. Fair swap I thought. 

[amc11890]

sounds like a good idea. Buy an inexpensive 5.0 and replace it with 351.  Ill have to consider that.  Are there any sites where i can get a free insurance quote?  Just to get a idea of how much it will cost

[tommie gorman]

First my apologies for being wrong on the size, it is 3" taller. But it will still fit and be unnoticable.

http://mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/18818/

I tried to think as if my own daughter were in your shoes.

Or if that is too much work, here is a simle bolt on article where you just partially have to break the engine seals.

They took a stock 5.0 and got it from 14.47 seconds at 93.6 mph damned near into the 12's. I found it very informative and interesting.

5.0-Liter Upgrades

http://mustang50magazine.com/howto/22001/

Step 1: The First Round

http://mustang50magazine.com/howto/22001/index1.html

Step 2: Breaking Into The 13s

http://mustang50magazine.com/howto/22001/index2.html

Step 3: Heading For The 12s

http://mustang50magazine.com/howto/22001/index3.html

I hope that one helps, it seems where you are headed. Fairly simple and inexpenpensive.

[cholla]

Back to reality from the Bugatti.I'm a 5.0 fan & there are mods you can make.I like the way a carb sounds & runs but if you get one of the FI models & leave it pretty much like it is it will get the best gas milage if thats important to you.If your goal is to fool the insurance company start with a 4 cyl. body the ID# will tell the insurance company it's a 4cyl. Then put a 5.0 in it.

Any discount is a good one so the 2 you already have will help I think the will give you between 20 & 30% off.Another one you need to check on is a saftey course.They take about a day & if your insurance will let you use it too thats another 10 to 15% off.In my state you have to take the safety class every 3 years to keep the insurance discount.You can also take it to get some tickets dropped.Some people save it for that but thats a mistake because you can take it for the insurance discount & if you get a ticket you can take it again for the ticket.It can only be used once every 2 years for a ticket but you could take the clsaa one day then get a tcket & take it again the next day to get the ticket dropped.

I live in Texas you will have to check you states laws on this.

[dlewis23]

sounds like a good idea. Buy an inexpensive 5.0 and replace it with 351.  Ill have to consider that.  Are there any sites where i can get a free insurance quote?  Just to get a idea of how much it will cost

amc you can go alot bigger then a 351 if you want, ive seen people put a 396in a 5.0 pushing 450hp. personally i would put this in there http://www.fordcobraengines.com/418W_515HPCarb.htm  :D

as far as insurance goes i would go here http://www.progressive.com/ and see what they quote you. just to let you know i ran through it real quick and for a 16 year old male the lowest basic insurance was $1827 for  6 months for a 93 mustang. The Recommend was $3488 for 6 months.

[cholla]

These are my comments on the mods tommie put in.

part 1

Forget the short tube headers keep the stock exhaust manifold.From there on a H-pipe , dual

cats,& dual mufflers is a good idea.The long tube headers that they couldn't use in

California probably would give some HP gain but only if the engine is experiencing back

pressure in the exaust.I doubt you will have this with the other exhaust mods.The long tube

headers have a scavenging effect but not necessary for a pretty stock engine.

part 2

The new throttle body & Better air filters will allow better breathing so a good idea.I

wouldn't put in the adjustable fuel pressure regulator  at least if the engine isn't

starving for fuel.I doubt the stock one will be.

I would leave out the underdrive pulleys they would give you some HP by not using it but

you could end up with overheating & hard steering to name a few problems with this.

Of course a lower gear ratio (higher numbers) will improve acceleration & low end

performance but you will trade top end (highway speed) for this unless you have the HP

to overcome it. The 3.73 wouldn't be too bad but of you could go with something around

3.40 it would be better.This is a fairly expense mod also.

part 3

These are pretty expensive parts .To start I like the intake manifold.I would leave it

there.If you must go on then the SVO Cobra engine control computer (ECM) first.Then the

24-lb/hr injectors see how it runs with this setup.Then if it seems fuel starved add the

SVO in-tank fuel pump rated at 110 lph of flow.For the rockers for a stock motor otherwise

I don't think you will notice improvement.

Now for my 2 cents with a 100000+ mile motor like they started with it honestly is at least

begining to need a valve job.This will effect the mods.If it was a 100000 mostly highway use

maybe not but if it was mostly in town the valaes would definatly need a vavle job.You can

usually count on the added price of new exhaust valves on a valve job.The intakes usually can

be ground & used for the next 100000 if the engine hasn't been overheated at some time &

warped them.Go ahead & spend the money to have the heads magnafluxed to check for cracks

before the valve job & for warp that can be corrected by planeing.

Check the compression befoer the valve job if it seems OK for most cyl & the engine is not

smoking then the rings might handle another 50000 but by 150000 they need to be replaced .

This usually means an engine bore & new pistons.If you r this far in it's time for a reground

crank & new bearings.Might as well replace the cam bearings also & add a mild street cam.

New lifters & a high performance timing chain & gears.New oil pump (stock is fine for most

cars.)

When you have the bore job the pistons you select depends on other mods you plan to make.

But basically lower compression for a turbo or blower.Higher compression for natural intake.

Not too high or you won't be able to get fuel to run it on the street.

[amc11890]

thx guys for ur help, will consider these options

[tommie gorman]

Like dlewis23 said you can go much larger, in fact you could actually go as large as a all out 460. But you need to locate a 460 truck oil pan, a necessity to make it fit. But I was trying to keep it simple and stock looking.

A 429 or 460 would be balls to the wall. That would be ultimate. Just find a whole car with the 460 and tranny in it. Many needed parts for cheap.

Here is the two cars I purchased on e-bay. Fairlane for $2500 and Galaxie for $299. Galaxie has everything needed to make the swap, including the heavier brakes, cooling, and suspension. And it requires no emission's. It even came with an aluminum intake.

My toy I need to get around to, someday. Under $3000 right now. And emissions legal. (what emissions?) 67 Fairlane*70 Galaxie Brougham

The Fairlane has drum brakes and a 289.

[amc11890]

Like dlewis23 said you can go much larger, in fact you could actually go as large as a all out 460. But you need to locate a 460 truck oil pan, a necessity to make it fit. But I was trying to keep it simple and stock looking.

A 429 or 460 would be balls to the wall. That would be ultimate. Just find a whole car with the 460 and tranny in it. Many needed parts for cheap.

Here is the two cars I purchased on e-bay. Fairlane for $2500 and Galaxie for $299. Galaxie has everything needed to make the swap, including the heavier brakes, cooling, and suspension. And it requires no emission's. It even came with an aluminum intake.

My toy I need to get around to, someday. Under $3000 right now. And emissions legal. (what emissions?) 67 Fairlane*70 Galaxie Brougham

The Fairlane has drum brakes and a 289.

a 460 in a mustang would be insane, i would just love to pull up to somebody and see there face when i blow past them

[tommie gorman]

a 460 in a mustang would be insane

Pretty much my point, I guess that it might be too much. But I guess I worry too much about putting others in danger, and forget I wass young once too. Go have fun. If I find an article on that swap, I will post it later.

[deerkill10]

About mods for a 5.0

I own a 1979 mercury capri(it is lighter than a mustang) it came with an original 5.0 the first year of the fox body style, upgrades i have fould usefull over 20 years of ownership.

Go to carberation instead of fuel injection better throttle response.

I like 410 rear end

world class or b/w t5 trannies

high rise with hood mods for clearance i run a holly dual feed dp

I like the 351 H/O (you can find them in full size mid 80 bronco 240 hp stock)change the oil pan to double hump.you can easily bring this up to 325 hp on the motor with a tight budget.

add single stage nos 125 hp

brace the frame (unibody)in the rear. this will help you launch straight.

And you are ready to run the lights

with the right tires you should see the mid to high 10's in a quarter

and you should be able to achieve it for under 10k

[RAINMAKA]

having a 460 is nuts, i have two friends who have them. one is in a ford truck and is absolutely nuts pushing around 650hp with some mods of course. the other is in a 92 mustang and that car has so much torque it blew my mind when i went for a ride.