ISPs and privacy.

[werewolf1024]

Hi there!

I am concerned about my privacy when surfing on the internet, and I have a couple of questions.

Can my ISP see what websites am I browsing and from what websites am I downloading, and possibly keep a record of it?

Can my ISP see the password and username whenever I am logging into some website?

I am not an expert in this field and I'd like to ask the people who REALLY know.

Thanks in advance!

[netmasta]

Yes, your ISP does have the ability to see everything you do online. Some ISP's do keep records of their customers internet usage. They probably won't be able to see your passwords, but they can, technically see your usernames.

[Swimmer]

netmasta  hit it on the head.. that is why the RIAA is requesting records from the ISPs to see what traffic was going where and who the IP address were released to.. 

As far as passwords and other sensative stuff.. HTTPS should take care of that..  all of that traffic is encrypted so.. they know that traffic is coming and going but they wouldnt be able to tell what the traffic is or what is in the packets.

There was a huge blow up earlier when google had some of its search records compromised..  Everyone tracks everything this day in age..

[ispgeek]

Hi there!

I am concerned about my privacy when surfing on the internet, and I have a couple of questions.

Can my ISP see what websites am I browsing and from what websites am I downloading, and possibly keep a record of it?

Can my ISP see the password and username whenever I am logging into some website?

I am not an expert in this field and I'd like to ask the people who REALLY know.

Thanks in advance!

Okay...here is the skinny....

All ISP's in the USA log all traffic across their network.  The key here is how long the information is stored and that varies.  Your ISP does not log or keep any records of keystrokes, passwords or any other private information that may be passed from the user to the site and vice versa.

Depending on the ISP type (DSL or CABLE), privacy laws very significantly.  Generally speaking though, no ISP may release information about you, your browsing habits or any other information relating to you without a lawful court order.  So far most ISP's have prevailed against the RIAA due to recent recent supreme court rulings (there have been many exceptions too...so be careful) that further muddy the water BUT it depends on your ISP.  Some are sooo afraid of any lawsuit they willingly comply with no resistance.  Then there are the others who frankly value your privacy as much as you do and fight tooth and nail to prevent RIAA and similar abuses (including overzealous law enforcement).  I guess the bottom line is to play it safe but be assured that most ISP's value your right to privacy and will resist most efforts on behalf of others to obtain information about you.  COX is a huge exception....they by far have been some of the biggest whimps when it comes to their customers privacy and the RIAA and others and are responsible for precident being set in court because of their lousy defense of their customers privacy.  Okay...okay...Cox is not the only one but they are by far the biggest whimp in the bunch.

[saygoodie]

So... does anyone know how comcast is when it comes to privacy?

[biker9075]

So ISP's can really see all the porn sites I've been on? 

[just-]

So ISP's can really see all the porn sites I've been on? 

yeap, they just look out for new ones they have no seen before

[dlewis23]

So ISP's can really see all the porn sites I've been on? 

yep.

[ispgeek]

So ISP's can really see all the porn sites I've been on? 

Yep....we do...and if the site happens to satisfy the needs of those who lets just say like them underage......you can be sure that is going into one big database that can and will be used against you.  DOH! 

[dlewis23]

Yep....we do...and if the site happens to satisfy the needs of those who lets just say like them underage......you can be sure that is going into one big database that can and will be used against you.  DOH! 

that actually usually doesn't happen because ISPs rarely if ever actually keep log files for more then a few weeks let alone a few days. and no one ever looks at them unless a law in force meant agency requests something.

[ispgeek]

that actually usually doesn't happen because ISPs rarely if ever actually keep log files for more then a few weeks let alone a few days. and no one ever looks at them unless a law in force meant agency requests something.

We have a very dedicated security department that is constantly reviewing logs for this, that and the other thing (so don't think for a second we don't read those logs...through a number of means the logs are analyzed constantly).  Length of storage depends on the ISP but the minimum is several weeks almost across the board and in some cases they are archived off to perm storage.  Although my post about the porn thing was half tongue'n'cheek there is substantial fact behind it.  Due to the proliferation of child porn and the sick animals that prey on them, most ISP are now keeping related information much longer and under much higher scrutiny in preparation for expected law changes that allows for easier tracking of these sick freaks.  Bottom line...you don't want to be found on ANY one of those sites...EVER...you will attract attention you don't want (even if you aren't one of the sick freaks) and for those of you with security clearances....welp....there are two surefire ways to kill a clearance in heartbeat...financial problems and deviant behaviors that could put you or our government in jeopardy. 

[tommie gorman]

And to start it off right:

Welcome to the forum werewolf1024 

Hope you got the answer you were looking for. Enjoy your stay, and come again. Next time the drinks are on me. 

I prefer straight Pepsi on the rocks. 

[snmp_rape]

i wouldnt be concerned with privacy from the isp but from my fellow users.  all ur traffic comn in can easily be sniffd by someone with the no-how.  as well as ur traffic leavin ur pc which is much harder.  but possible.  as far as ur traffic, the isp can rebuild ur traffic, and be able to tell where youve been what ur usernames, passwords all that.  anything.  ofcourse they wont because this is an invasion of your privacy.  and if that guy above is checking to see where people are going u are in violation of federal laws.  only the federal government is allowed to monitor site traffic to kiddie porn, anti government, firearms/weapons.  it is not ur right at all.  doesnt matter if it takes place on ur net or not.  its exactly like the lessor leasee claus.  its ur property but while u lease it to someone else your not allowed in it with out their permission.  all the fine print in the world on a contract doesnt supercede someones rights.  and i dont at all promote or practice any of the above activities, but i must make a comment for democracies sake.  the mpa and the riaa are all idiots.  for every one site they take down 50 more spring up.  its as futile as the war on drugs.  the fact that someone else can tell you what to do with something you own is beyond me, if i want to make fifty copies of something i own i will and they can suk my @$$.  as long as im not using it for my own personal gain im not infringing any copyright.  i think its funny when u put a cd in and it sends u to website where u can listen to the songs from there after u register.  what morons dont they know that almost every pc within the last 2 years has a soundcard capable of recording streaming audio at crystal clear rates.  u cant control information.  on that note im out.

[tommie gorman]

True and well said there snmp_rape 

[peepnklown]

I wonder about this: relakks

[ispgeek]

i wouldnt be concerned with privacy from the isp but from my fellow users.  all ur traffic comn in can easily be sniffd by someone with the no-how.  as well as ur traffic leavin ur pc which is much harder.  but possible.  as far as ur traffic, the isp can rebuild ur traffic, and be able to tell where youve been what ur usernames, passwords all that.  anything.  ofcourse they wont because this is an invasion of your privacy.  and if that guy above is checking to see where people are going u are in violation of federal laws.  only the federal government is allowed to monitor site traffic to kiddie porn, anti government, firearms/weapons.  it is not ur right at all.  doesnt matter if it takes place on ur net or not.  its exactly like the lessor leasee claus.  its ur property but while u lease it to someone else your not allowed in it with out their permission.  all the fine print in the world on a contract doesnt supercede someones rights.  and i dont at all promote or practice any of the above activities, but i must make a comment for democracies sake.  the mpa and the riaa are all idiots.  for every one site they take down 50 more spring up.  its as futile as the war on drugs.  the fact that someone else can tell you what to do with something you own is beyond me, if i want to make fifty copies of something i own i will and they can suk my @$$.  as long as im not using it for my own personal gain im not infringing any copyright.  i think its funny when u put a cd in and it sends u to website where u can listen to the songs from there after u register.  what morons dont they know that almost every pc within the last 2 years has a soundcard capable of recording streaming audio at crystal clear rates.  u cant control information.  on that note im out.

There is no violation of law or "rights" in an ISP logging traffic to/from their network.  As for specific websites especially those who are known to traffic in sexual with underage content there are already very specific laws to allow the logging of traffic on those sites for the sole purpose of prosecution of the offenders.  Suspected sites in violation of predator laws are  subject to monitoring 24/7 normally through some type of court order and since you won't know it or be able to detect it, your best bet is to just stay away. As for your statement about packet sniffers....don't use them to detect off your private network.  If your ISP catches you...and they will, it is a 100% surefire way to wake up to a TOS violation and disabled modem.

[VyraX]

Optimum Online keeps your logs of all your activity for 1 MONTH!!!

Then they supposedly destroy it, or you never know it could be backed up outside of their localized servers. So if they need to see what activity you have been doing they just search the 1 Month log. Again, this is just their "local" logs, and buffers. Who knows if they are aloud to forward backups outside of the system, basically a loophole for getting around privacy protection.

That is why I no longer have optimum online, not trustworthy in my book. Got off the bandwagon and joined SPEAKEASY.NET .. Can't complain, great service..

When FiOS hits I'm moving off SPEAKEASY.NET and jumping on fiber. We should have it end of 2007 - and that is s00n!! See them installing it on the poles in my neighborhood, trucks running around like mad. I continue to give them thumbs up everytime i see them..

Food For Thought.. - - VyraX - - 

[ispgeek]

Optimum Online keeps your logs of all your activity for 1 MONTH!!!

Then they supposedly destroy it, or you never know it could be backed up outside of their localized servers. So if they need to see what activity you have been doing they just search the 1 Month log. Again, this is just their "local" logs, and buffers. Who knows if they are aloud to forward backups outside of the system, basically a loophole for getting around privacy protection.

That is why I no longer have optimum online, not trustworthy in my book. Got off the bandwagon and joined SPEAKEASY.NET .. Can't complain, great service..

When FiOS hits I'm moving off SPEAKEASY.NET and jumping on fiber. We should have it end of 2007 - and that is s00n!! See them installing it on the poles in my neighborhood, trucks running around like mad. I continue to give them thumbs up everytime i see them..

Food For Thought.. - - VyraX - - 

Woa there sparky.....a month is not bad...many keep the logs much longer.  As for FIOS don't for a second think that you are safer there.  FIOS is owned by a telco, they in turn have much more regulation AND in true telco style tend to keep logs and records for everything for an eternity.  Additionally one has to wonder if FIOS is sooooo good...why do they require you sign a minimum one year contract to lock yourself in to a "low" rate, with early termination fee's (just like a cell phone contract).  Also...read the fine print very carefully (and there are two full pages of VERY fine print) to make sure that what you do with your internet connection is permitted.  Example: FTP and other forms of serving are not permitted on FIOS..yup you can forget about webserving from your shiney new fibre connection.  If you have phone with them....hope you are ready for digital phone because they will "quietly" convert your phone service once the install is done....and if you are unlucky one day...the gardner comes along and sliceOmatics your fibre drop and you lose both phone and internet.  The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence....before you take the FIOS plunge...make sure that you are totally aware of the cans, cannots.  That greener grass may be nothing more than green spraypaint on a dead lawn.

It should be noted that Verizon's repair record of damaged FIOS drops has been much the talk of the town, in some cases taking the company WEEKS to pull new fibre.

Full disclosure requires that I state fully that I am posting this information from the perspective of being a FIOS competitor.  The facts posted above however are not disputable and taken directly from the FIOS contract and pricing schedules.  Consumer experiences related are based on numerous news articles and forum posts and are mutually verifiable.

[VyraX]

Regardless I'm getting the FIOS business package, where yes I will be hosting everything off of it.. Already have my rack set-up for serving web-pages, teamspeak, and some gaming.. With the Verizon FiOS Business Package they can't say anything, you are aloud to host whatever you want! In regards to FIOS being bad in any respect. How could it be any worse than Optimum Online? Or any other cable service for that matter.. They limit your upstream on port 80 to 128kbit.. What a joke, who in their right mind would put up with such a thing..

It's basically limiting a form of your rights, regardless of the TOS. Personally I call it "Internet Starvation Blockade." That Optimum Online / Time-Warner / Cox Cable any many others are in on.. I have had pipes to Canada completely shut off.. Now you mean to tell me that a HUGE ISP doesn't have good connections to Canada?? I'm in New York, and they all of a sudden have no connection what-so-ever or limited speeds to Canada?? What a joke..

Now that I am on SPEAKEASY.NET they get the full 5mbit down from Canadian Servers.. Optimum Online, can .. Well, Don't think I'll say what I really want them to do with their connection..

Nothing is worse than Cable Companies.. FIOS is a Union made company!! Workers get paid what they deserve, there-for, the work gets done right..

Another thing, me and Blunted 2 have friends with FIOS .. They have been pulling full speeds since they bought it.. So I'm sorry hosting off the regular packages is aloud, and not limited to any degree.. We've seen some friends pull TeraBytes a month, without any hick-ups from Verizon.. Try that with a typical cable service.. This is all UpStream, no-less..

Don't care if Cable Companies get hurt in the process.. Telephone companies were the original MABELL!! They deserve the come back..

Regards, - - VyraX --

[ispgeek]

Regardless I'm getting the FIOS business package, where yes I will be hosting everything off of it.. Already have my rack set-up for serving web-pages, teamspeak, and some gaming.. With the Verizon FiOS Business Package they can't say anything, you are aloud to host whatever you want! In regards to FIOS being bad in any respect. How could it be any worse than Optimum Online? Or any other cable service for that matter.. They limit your upstream on port 80 to 128kbit.. What a joke, who in their right mind would put up with such a thing..

It's basically limiting a form of your rights, regardless of the TOS. Personally I call it "Internet Starvation Blockade." That Optimum Online / Time-Warner / Cox Cable any many others are in on.. I have had pipes to Canada completely shut off.. Now you mean to tell me that a HUGE ISP doesn't have good connections to Canada?? I'm in New York, and they all of a sudden have no connection what-so-ever or limited speeds to Canada?? What a joke..

Now that I am on SPEAKEASY.NET they get the full 5mbit down from Canadian Servers.. Optimum Online, can .. Well, Don't think I'll say what I really want them to do with their connection..

Nothing is worse than Cable Companies.. FIOS is a Union made company!! Workers get paid what they deserve, there-for, the work gets done right..

Another thing, me and Blunted 2 have friends with FIOS .. They have been pulling full speeds since they bought it.. So I'm sorry hosting off the regular packages is aloud, and not limited to any degree.. We've seen some friends pull TeraBytes a month, without any hick-ups from Verizon.. Try that with a typical cable service.. This is all UpStream, no-less..

Don't care if Cable Companies get hurt in the process.. Telephone companies were the original MABELL!! They deserve the come back..

Regards, - - VyraX --

FIOS business is a whole different beast.  Also alot more money.  I can't but notice that you are pro union.  Then you will saddened to find out that almost 100% of the work that has been done getting FIOS ready has been done by contractors such as Knight Enterprises and similar.  Rock bottom lowest bidder NON union contractors.  As for the other employees...well they don't get much better either.  Verizon has been hiring only contractors to fill the positions for FIOS support and at the end of two years has not been renewing individual contracts (thus not having to pay them benefits, retirement or any of the other forms of alleged derived benefits).  On the flip side...being non union. MOST cable company employees enjoy competitve wages, free cable, internet and phone, OUTSTANDING medical, dental, vision and disability, significant education reimbursement and  401k with significant matching AND an actual pension after a minimum period of time with the company and these benefits start the day you hire on.  Contrary to popular myth there is a line two miles long of applicants wanting to work for cable companies and for good reason.  Those who don't stay probably wern't what you would call ideal employees anyway.  Unlike union employees, our employees are actually required to show up on time, do a good job and be willing to work lots of overtime, sometimes weekends, holidays etc, and for their loyalty, dedication and hard work they are very well taken care of in all ways.

It should be noted that Verizon came knocking on the doors of many of our employees recently, only to be laughed at when they pitched their offer.  :haha: :haha: :haha:

[VyraX]

Well this might be in your area, but over here mostly everything is done by the Verizon Employees.. Even the work being contracted out is being done by a friend's company that I know personally.. (SpeedWire Inc.) You know what, they are Union.. So atleast I know the work being done in my area is going to be top notch when it comes to speeds and uptime.. Everything will be brand spanking new, nothing existing.. That in all respects is the best thing about it..

My buddies company has Verizon Contracts in Florida, Virginia and all the way down to Dominican Republic.. From what I understand he and his employees keep up on their work, and do not cut corners.. Its a large Contract, this isn't a scenario where his company was the lowest bidder.. More along the lines, he was the best equipped to do the job..

I've worked in the Verizon Co-Locations in my area do DSL Installs, of Digital Subscriber Set-ups (DSLAMs).. Let me tell you, they are up on what they do, we would be reprimanded if our work wasn't neat.. Now who else would forward calls and have Managers for each CoLocation that looks over work being done..

Verizon are the only company I know that has successfully let other companies use their copper telephone lines and have such success. You think the cable companies would nearly have that success if they let AT&T on their co-axle?? I highly doubt it.. They would actually have to compete!! 

Regards,  - - VyraX - -

[ispgeek]

Well this might be in your area, but over here mostly everything is done by the Verizon Employees.. Even the work being contracted out is being done by a friend's company that I know personally.. (SpeedWire Inc.) You know what, they are Union.. So atleast I know the work being done in my area is going to be top notch when it comes to speeds and uptime.. Everything will be brand spanking new, nothing existing.. That in all respects is the best thing about it..

My buddies company has Verizon Contracts in Florida, Virginia and all the way down to Dominican Republic.. From what I understand he and his employees keep up on their work, and do not cut corners.. Its a large Contract, this isn't a scenario where his company was the lowest bidder.. More along the lines, he was the best equipped to do the job..

I've worked in the Verizon Co-Locations in my area do DSL Installs, of Digital Subscriber Set-ups (DSLAMs).. Let me tell you, they are up on what they do, we would be reprimanded if our work wasn't neat.. Now who else would forward calls and have Managers for each CoLocation that looks over work being done..

They are the only company I know that has successfully let other companies use their copper telephone lines and have such success.. You think the cable companies would nearly have that success if they let AT&T on their co-axle?? I highly doubt it.. They would actually have to compete!! 

Regards,  - - VyraX - -

Actually, Verizon, SBC and several others work hand in hand with the cable companies.  This so called competition that you talk about is a public myth.  All cable companies that offer digital phone services utilize one of the bell companies to provide their hardline access.  FIOS is in this neck of the woods hard core and the churn to FIOS and other carriers has not increased at all.  There will always be those who bash the bells and those who bash the cable companies...but in the end...you will still be our customer....one way or the other....as each company at some time during the day uses the others networks to send their traffic and we get paid and they get paid....competition only exists in the eyes of the consumer....because they like rivals (must be the animal in us all).  Obviously we would prefer to have you as the primary customer...in your case you seem to be so pro union that you are blinded by the light (no offense intended).  Since this thread is not about unions I'm not going to go on a rant there...I will save it for a rant coming soon to forum near you....

[ispgeek]

Verizon are the only company I know that has successfully let other companies use their copper telephone lines and have such success. You think the cable companies would nearly have that success if they let AT&T on their co-axle?? I highly doubt it.. They would actually have to compete!! 

Hahahaha....you don't think that Verizon willingly allows other companies on their copper do you?  Federal law requires them to.  It's called equal access and this has been law for some time but let me tell you what....They fought this legislation almost to the death.  I remember the days and the bogus scare tactic ads that ALL the Bell companies engaged in trying to get people to force their legislators not to pass the law.  And since they passed the legislation giving equal access life has been better for all consumers.....

Regards,  - - VyraX - -

[VyraX]

Well my Servers and RackMount Equipment will be waiting until cable can offer a package that suits our needs. While me and many others wait, we'll use Verizon FIOS for hosting anything related to business!

For all that want to search the web blindly, go right ahead and use Cable Service.

Simple.. - - VyraX - -

[ispgeek]

Well my Servers and RackMount Equipment will be waiting until cable can offer a package that suits our needs. While me and many others wait, we'll use Verizon FIOS for hosting anything related to business!

For all that want to search the web blindly, go right ahead and use Cable Service.

Simple.. - - VyraX - -

Now I don't know about your cable company, but I can speak for ours.  We offer fiber to the premis for business customers large and small (of course there is a price) and the performance rivals anything that a telco can offer.  You might check with your cable company but make sure you are speaking with their B2B group and not someone in residential.  If you really need that level of service (if your cable company is set up for it) I'm sure they have a "special" group that can meet your needs but you will have to ask to speak directly with them.  It won't be an option in the IVR.