The Car Thread

[cholla]

Roco;I think I have am idea of what the inertia dampers  are.I remember they had a disks you could just put behind the wheel that was liquid filled that was suposed to do this .I haven't seen any for years.

Kind if like water injection where you had a small electric water pump  that went to a mist jet that you mounted in the top of the air cleaner.So you could get the benefit of the denser air in the combustion chamber.Probably less necessary in England.

[Roco]

Roco;I think I have am idea of what the inertia dampers  are.I remember they had a disks you could just put behind the wheel that was liquid filled that was suposed to do this .I haven't seen any for years.

Kind if like water injection where you had a small electric water pump  that went to a mist jet that you mounted in the top of the air cleaner.So you could get the benefit of the denser air in the combustion chamber.Probably less necessary in England.

Hi Cholla , never seen a water filled I.D. the Citroen one , is a 9 inch long x 4 inch wide thinwall tube sealed at both ends , inside at the bottom is a spring , above that a free floating steel  weight ,like a loose fitting solid piston , the tube was part filled with oil, just for lubrication ,

this Assembly was bolted to the suspension arm in the vertical plane, near the wheel hub , the dampers were friction disks , like a clutch assy. and were adjustable , by the mid 1970s they went over to using normal oil filled dampers, mainly for cost saving, as the ride was no better ,

Oh lol water injection, we had that, but as petrol improved it's octane rating it fell out of use, we experimented with  high compresions and 10% industrial alcohol , but again engines and fuel both improved ,BTW  my 2cv has 9.5-1 comp ratio and runs 95 octane lead free  with no problems     

 

[cholla]

Hi Roco;These are simular to the ones I had at one time.They're not water filled (oil of some kind) water wouldn't work because it would freeze.Probaly not enough viscosity either.These are actually called automatic wheel balancers.I think you were telling me about an older style Brit damper here I think it would be called a shock absorber.My brother's TR3 has the old lever action ones on the rear.

http://www.mrtruck.net/centramatic.htm

I have something else I want to find that I think you might find interesting.I just need to surf for it.

[cholla]

Roco;This is the Brit system I wanted to show you.I first ran across itt in an Austin America.But the links show a simular Brit car since the America was only sold in the USA & Canada.In looking I found the Citreon DS had a simular system a lot earlier.I think maintence is why the system didn't catch on.I always though the liquid worked better than gas or air.

Hydrolastic suspension is what Austin called their system & hydropneumatic is what Citreon called theirs.

http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?ado16drivef.htm

http://austin1800.homestead.com/Page16.html

I also thought the Austin America had an interesting transmission.The automatic was especially strange to me.Both shared the crankcase as the transmission housing & used common motor oil with the engine.This was the first front wheel only drive I ever worked on.Common now but it sure looked like a strange critter back in 1970.

[Roco]

Hi Cholla ,

the Austin/Morris 1100 and later minis 67 on, had Hydrolastic suspension,

it involved oil under gas pressure, the gas used to leak over time ,and required recharging , it never was a good system and the ride was poor IMHO,

doubt if there is many 1100's on the road in UK , many failed there first test at 3y

due to corrosion , they started flaking as you drove out the showroom LOL,

the autobox sharing the engine sump and oil was another spectacular failure,

metal from normal engine wear played havoc with the autobox seals and clutches ,

normal life span was 30,000 miles if you were lucky

The Citroen System (1954 > ) is still being used, Rolls Royce also  use it under license, and many Ambulances also, It is a complex system, and requires a engine driven pump and uses mineral oil , the suspension can be raised and lowered according to road conditions, this pump also supplies power steering, brakes , and on some, gearchanging , it gives the most amazing ride ,

Citroen's big difference to other cars is in it's suspension , even the little 2CV (1948> ) has mechanical  interlink between the back and front wheels , so if the front of the car rises the back does the same to compensate, 

Traction avant   LOL I have only owned two rear wheel drive cars, TR 7& Spitefire ,

I dislike driving RWD, very rare on UK roads , except for BMW , who haven't learned how to make FWD yet , LOL 

 

   

[tommie gorman]

Actually Roco, I think the little Hitler VW was one of the greatest cars ever built. I had one that got 40+ mpg. Stock with header and oversized tires. Which did not mess with the speedo as you (other folks) might think. It ran off of the front wheel.

They were rear wheel drive, and would go just about anywhere. As long as groung clearance allowed. And I passed many 4X4's on snowy streets. 

[Roco]

Actually Roco, I think the little Hitler VW was one of the greatest cars ever built. I had one that got 40+ mpg. Stock with header and oversized tires. Which did not mess with the speedo as you (other folks) might think. It ran off of the front wheel.

They were rear wheel drive, and would go just about anywhere. As long as groung clearance allowed. And I passed many 4X4's on snowy streets. 

Hi Tommie, thats fighting talk  to a Citroen man  yeah I will give it that they were well built , something that Citroen had problems with, so bits fall of Citroen's , you just have to accept their Gaelic idiosyncrasies  and have another glass of wine ,

My thoughts on the V.W.beetle , ( this will wake up a troll  )  as a car design they went up a blind alley, The rear engine/drive never proved sucesfull, apart from Porche who still carry it on ,

the car had only 2 doors and a small trunk , (boot UK) the 1200cc engine produced no more power than the Citroen 2cv's 602 cc  , the suspension was suited to the German Autobahn , and the ground clearance was poor,

The 2cv was much cheaper and did 55+mpg  had enormous ground clearance , 4 doors , sun roof, and well suited to the french farmer living up a goat track, many were used as dual purpose  machines , Shopping at the market, and pulling the plough,

There is much good natured rivalary between the VW and Citroen clubs  in the UK , 

but we do help each other out in times of trouble, I went to a custom VW meeting and came back to the 2CV to find a string of onions hanging from the mirror 

P.S. I normaly drive a G.M. Vauxhall astra ( a exellent machine but boring ) IMHO

[tommie gorman]

Never owned a Citroen, but I actually enjoyed the VW I did own.

They were bad about stretched headbolts though. Mine got them repeatedly, for some reason. Seldom much went wrong, and a normal weekly maintenance was setting the points, carried a book of matchwes just for that. 

[cholla]

A freind of mines dad had a Vespa 400 car .It had a VW engine & transaxle instead of it's stock one.He had a custom paint jod & it looked pretty cool.I wish I had a pic of it but I'm goin to post one of the stock Vespa 400.

With the VW engine you had to try not to wheelie the car .& one cool thing it would do except you had to corner carefully.It would run down the street with one of its front tires off.This got some strange looks from people.

[Roco]

A freind of mines dad had a Vespa 400 car .It had a VW engine & transaxle instead of it's stock one.He had a custom paint jod & it looked pretty cool.I wish I had a pic of it but I'm goin to post one of the stock Vespa 400.

With the VW engine you had to try not to wheelie the car .& one cool thing it would do except you had to corner carefully.It would run down the street with one of its front tires off.This got some strange looks from people.

Your friends Dad sounds my kinda guy, LOL he would have been beter off using the lighter 2cv engine IMO.

Citroen made a 4 WD car by using a engine/gearbox assy. back and front of the car, easy enough to do, as reversing the rear engine , only needs the crownwheel to be reversed in the gearbox, many of these cars were made for the oil companies , as desert exploration vehicles , also for the Spanish Police !

not many  survive now and a good one is worth upwards of $20,000,

"In March 1958 the first prototype left the PANHARD-factory, which belonged to Citro

[cholla]

Roco ;I'm sure one of the reason he chose the VW engine is here a VW bug engine was easy to get & cheap.This man has passed several years ago but he was probably the coolest dad of any of my freinds.Another car he made one time was he cut a 1963 Dodge in half remove the rear seat section & welded it back togather .So it just had the front bench seat.He always drove a Sunbeam Alpine for his main car.

The Austin America was the only British FWD car I have driven.It was pretty new so it seemed fine.I've never even sat in a Citreon but maybe sometime I will.The only Brit car other than front engine RWD I ever was around was a Sunbeam Imp but I never was able to get it running.It was a rear engine vehicle.

The main Brit cars I have owned or driven much were Austin Healy Sprites both of them leaked badly at the rear main oil seal.I blame this on bad engine design.The other one my brothers 1958 TR3 a great sports car it will run circles around any Sprite.Except maybe the few I've seen with an American V8 transplanted into them.But if there were no gas stations the TR3 gets around 38MPG highway & would get better if it had the overdrive but this one just has the 4-speed.

[Roco]

Hi Cholla , you guys managed to get a V8 in a sprite ? LOL, I couldent get into a sprite mk1 (Frog-eye ) known in the UK as sprog eyed fright , I was running the Cooper S at that time, didn't have any trouble with Sprites 

The Sunbeam imp , shame it never ran, engine by Coventry Climax , they were never full sorted, and being rear mounted had cooling problems , that engine should have gone into the Mini IMO , the Austin rear main seal, various types were tried felt, cork, leather, they could be made oil tight, but it was a bit hit and miss,

TR3  nice, my favorite was the TR5-6 looked so good , I had a ratty TR 7 the only thing that was good for was pulling birds LOL , a task somewhat harder in a 2CV, but then I like a challenge 

 TR5  ENGINE DETAILS

6 Cylinder 74.7mm x 95mm 2498cc, engine

TR5    150bhp at 5500rpm      M/torque - 164lbs/ft at 3500rpm                                     

 

TR250 104bhp at 4500 rpm    143lbs/ft at 3000rpm  (Americian market )

see you guys been detuning again LOL

[tommie gorman]

, you guys managed to get a V8 in a sprite ?

One notation about American ingenuity Roco. If it rolls down the street, and can be licensed, we can shove an American V-8 into it! Pinto, Vega, Gremlin, Capri, you  name it. It may not have been safe to drive, but it would hold a V-8.

Or a V-8 or V-10 in a motorcycle?

In fact I see you fellas are not much diff with the VW here.

http://www.ltv-vwc.org.uk/wheelspin//ws_jan_2002/A-Front-Engined-bug.htm

And if you really want something done that looks improbable, just tell an Irishman it can't be done. I hate it when folks tell me that!  It might get broke, but it will fit Damn it! 

[cholla]

tommie ;I had forgot about some of the crazy bikes I have seen.I think their a death wish.

Roco;I found a pic of a V8 Sprite.It's not the one I saw in one of the Hot Rod type magizines several years ago.But I couldn't find that one.I had pics of the engine compartment .This one shows there is a least one more.

[tommie gorman]

You know when I was younger I actually wished I could ride something like one of those bikes at least once, for some reason I just don't feel the same anymore.

But they are DAMNED FAST ! ! And not bad on gas at all.

Would prefer a V-6 stock myself, that would do just fine.

[Roco]

tommie ;I had forgot about some of the crazy bikes I have seen.I think their a death wish.

Roco;I found a pic of a V8 Sprite.It's not the one I saw in one of the Hot Rod type magizines several years ago.But I couldn't find that one.I had pics of the engine compartment .This one shows there is a least one more.

Hi Cholla would that Sprite be street legal in th USA , certainly not in the UK ,

( no exposed engine parts ) it might frighten the horses 

and Tommie, I see the the VW guy moved to Cal. , with the car, LOL I dont blame him for that   

[cholla]

Roco ;As far as I know you can have the engine exposed.Certainly the super charger.I wish I could have found the one I saw in a Hot Rod magazine several years ago it wasn't supercharged .So the engine was under the hood the best I can remember.

[Roco]

Roco ;As far as I know you can have the engine exposed.Certainly the super charger.I wish I could have found the one I saw in a Hot Rod magazine several years ago it wasn't supercharged .So the engine was under the hood the best I can remember.

Thanks for the info. Cholla , even the custom VW Beatles in uk (chrome covers ) rear engined , have to have Plexiglas covers in UK.,

one 2CV  , to my knowledge has been Turbo'd d in UK , but it caught fire b4 a Car Magazine   could road test it LOL ,fuel injection is being tried,

The citroen 2cv  since 1947 , has a  alloy cross flow  hemi head engine, 

mine has 9.5-1 comp ratio , forged German Mahle pistons, ram boost intake from cooling fan,

electronic ignition, expapsion boxes and straight through cherry bomb exaust , oversize re-jeted

twin barrel  Solex carb.  ( twin barrel  is standard on 2cv. ) larger capacity oil pump, runs at 90 psi hot , on synthetic oil,  and blueprinted engine,  light flywheel ,  total cost = $450  and including new Citroen cylinders (2 )  seals etc.

Total milage since build 62k on unleaded 95 oct. oil 1 pint in 3,000 miles, Bhp per litre =80 bhp

engine design 1946, by Panhard (citroen)

my 1999 GM astra 1.4 cc produces 85 bhp with 1,400 cc !!! so whats new 

[tommie gorman]

So are you saying these Missouri Street Legal cars would not go well in the UK Roco ? ?

By the way, my brother had a VW buggy just like those and it passed the inspection. As long as they have lights, etc...

[cholla]

tommie;The super charger on the Camaro is about the biggest one I've seen.The cops might stop that one for vision restriction.Really we are pretty liberal in what we allow but it seems like the Brits are too strict.One think I would like to see them take control of is too dark of tinted windows.I have seen several that there is no way the driver or anyone inside could be identified.

Rember the old homemade dunebuggies ? that were basically just a car with most of the body cut off. I bet the wouldn't have got by in England.I knew a guy who drove one the High school spray painted red,white & blue.Then he was pissed when someone ripped off his 8 track tape player.

Roco; I definatly would like to take your citroen for a drive.I think you woulsd like to take a drive in an old FWD Tornado or Eldorado.They would be 455cid & 500cid .

[tommie gorman]

Not sure if that swelled up thing is real or not cholla. It just looked funny to me. 

But yeah you could always stuff a 500 in one of those Roco. 500-550 lbs. of stump pulling torque. That would be killer. And front wheel drive to boot. 

[php]

@cholla: around here you can get a ticket for tinted driver side window and windshield... also for too dark of tint I believe...

[cholla]

@cholla: around here you can get a ticket for tinted driver side window and windshield... also for too dark of tint I believe...

php :We have some laws in Texas too but there not enforced very well.& they allow a lot of tinting.So I think anyone could beat the ticket the way they are now.I think most of the time a cop gives a ticket for this is he wants to stop someone to check them out & it's the excuse .If he doesn't find anything else you just get a warning.Check your state & see how really dark they can be I bet it will surprise you.Even the the law is unclear.Kind of leaves it up to the cop.& I see cars with tinting so dark the driver could not be identified.They must not be getting ticketed everyday or they would remove the tinting.

tommie :I liked it too maybe off some kind of diesel truck & then machined to fit the Camaro engine ;what ever it is.

I meant Roco would like to drive the whole car on the Tornado or Eldorado.But the dropping the whole engine & it's front wheel drive in the Citroen2CV sounds like something Roco would like.I would go with the Oldsmobile 455cid because I'm sure there are more performance parts for it than the Cadillac 500cid.

I haven't driven the FWD Eldorado but I have driven a Tornado & there pretty aw some & the one I drove was stock.A friend had a 1967 I think it could have been a 1968 it's been a while.

I rebuilt a 500 in a Sedan de Ville though & it is a pretty aw some motor too.The only thing that wasn't stock was it was bored .030 over. with stock compression.

One of the strangest combos I ever saw & I took a ride in it too.Was a 1951 Chevy pickup it had an old Cadallic motor of some kind with a factory 3 one barrel intake manifold.The rear end was held to the leaf springs by crossed log chain & it had a cut off bicycle handle bar to shift the automatic tranny.btw a Mexican owned it.

[tommie gorman]

I don't think any cop would allow tinted windshield's. That is just insane.

I prefer the rear window glass on a pickup. Don't really care for the front side windows to be tinted. I do like to see what is coming my way. 

[cholla]

It has a car in the screen shot so it's sort of on topic.

Roco this is a screen shot of my MSPaint "save as " screen with the pulldown pulled down.