ULTIMATE PC SETUP ?!

[Roco]

Hehehehe, just got promoted to Sr. Member

next stop is veteran if you last the course ,  , if my memory serves me correctly,

if not I will be a return it post unpaid , 

congrats ExtremeFusion

[Blako]

What windows applications and games are you planing on?  Give us a feal for what your going to ask your computer to do.

Video Card Comparison chart

Single, Dual Or Quad Core? article

As we see, there are considerable performance differences between a Core 2 processor running on one, two or four cores. You'll experience the least differences with popular games such as Quake IV, Prey or Call of Duty 2, as these haven't been optimized much for multi-core processors. The newer the game title, the better your chances to benefit from dual or quad core processors. At this time, a dual core at high clock speeds is the best (and most reasonable) choice for gaming.

Professional applications such as the graphics rendering suite 3DStudio Max, Cinebench or Mainconcept's H.264 encoder are the exact opposite - these require as much performance as they can get, and hence were already optimized to make maximum use of dual and quad core processors. All three scale almost linearly, and are close to doubling performance when doubling the core count.

[starship_troopers]

hey Blako, i see no reason to go as high as quad core at the moment. im keeping a dual core for as long as i can. 

[dlewis23]

The only real reason for quad core or higher is when you do video, 3D image rendering or big photoshop files. otherwise nothing else really taks advantage of it.

[ninjageek]

Liquid cooling results in lower and more consistent temperatures and generally less noise. You complain about water, but pure water is a really bad conductor, and with aircooling your cpu fan could die, leaving your CPU to overheat just the same. So I take it you check that fan all the time too?

CFM rating aren't always accurate, and a side fan will help in some cases, and hurt in others. It's not as simple as you say it is.

I certainly do recommend OCing, if you for example game a lot. Core 2 Duos scale well, and by far most will do 3.2+ GHz 100% 24/7 stable. If you buy the right aircooler, that is even possible with a quad. On the other hand, if a computer is only used for browsing/text editing, then you're right, as the performance increase goes mostly unnoticed. In that situation you'd be better off lowering the voltage supplied to the CPU, lowering the number of watts the whole computer uses.

I respect what your saying I really do. But imho, I just disagree, which is cool. Your right the cpu fan could die. But having good air flow would help tons. If your computer runs all the time, or you run it allot, The pump will only last so long. Same principle as a waterpump for a car. Sooner or later it will go out. Overclocking is just a bad Idea. Your pushing the the cpu past what it should normally run. A decent watercooling system is gonna run you well over a hundred bucks. A better cpu will is cheeper. A dual core 4200 amd will run you 75.00 bucks at new egg. I run the 4200 dual core with a decent pci-e video card. My cpu runs at 26 C idle. 45 c full load. Well below the max of what it could run. The max for my cpu is 65 c. Just my 2 cents.

[RTB]

I respect what your saying I really do. But imho, I just disagree, which is cool. Your right the cpu fan could die. But having good air flow would help tons. If your computer runs all the time, or you run it allot, The pump will only last so long. Same principle as a waterpump for a car. Sooner or later it will go out. Overclocking is just a bad Idea. Your pushing the the cpu past what it should normally run. A decent watercooling system is gonna run you well over a hundred bucks. A better cpu will is cheeper. A dual core 4200 amd will run you 75.00 bucks at new egg. I run the 4200 dual core with a decent pci-e video card. My cpu runs at 26 C idle. 45 c full load. Well below the max of what it could run. The max for my cpu is 65 c. Just my 2 cents.

The debate's still going whether keeping a computer on 24/7 versus turning it off whenever you don't use it will make the parts last longer, but either way that argument of yours still doesn't hold. The pump will go out, just like the fan on your CPU cooler will, either way the CPU overheats and the system should turn itself off. The question is, will that happen in a few weeks from installing it, or after 10+ years, and the answer to that is you just can't know.

Nowadays there are quite a few cheap CPUs and the scaling from low-end to high-end doesn't add all that much, so overclocking may seem to have less of a point. The point I can still make is that any Core 2 Duo will run at 3 Ghz, if not more. And if a E6320 runs at that speed against a X6800, no benchmark can see the difference, but your wallet is emptier if you pick the latter. Intels new 45nm CPUs will have that nasty price scaling again for a while, and the Q9450 will happily run at QX9650 speed, for a fraction of the price. All it takes is a good aircooler, which I would recommend anyway, since stock is usually as cheap as possible.

Your X2 4200+ will happily run at 2.5 if not more, but on stock volts I guess 2.5 will be the average. It may add a degree of two to your temperatures, still completely safe though. What's not to like about 400 extra (and free) Mhz? Especially since the impact on the lifespan of your CPU is neglectible.

[mudmanc4]

Throw this where you wanna, I have an AMD 3200+ runnin just below 2400 ( stock is 2200)  for the past 4+ years, the only time I shut it down is to change hardware , (seldom)  Lost two HDD's  and 1 raid card, 1 PS and some bad memory.  Lets see how far she goes : ) 

Oh yea, had a MB head south as well K-7 delta  board , the lan on three that I have running went a couple years ago, the one that was warrantied had a case of " chipcreap" due to bad ball and socket joints.

[Blako]

In my opinion there is comfortable overclocking and extreme.  Comfortable overclocking might be to OC a E2160 (stock 1.8GHz) to 3.0GHz with stock fan, heatsink and voltage.  Thus money is conserved when compared to purchasing a higher priced cpu.  Extreme OC could be spending a thousand dollars to have your cpu run at 4-5GHz.

To generalize: Are you overclocking to save money or for braging rights?

Concerning water cooling,  the advantage to water cooling is the rate of the transfer of thermal energy is greater then with air.  Brainstrorm!  A heatsink would perform much better if  there were liquid flowing through the fins and not a gas (air).

[dlewis23]

In my opinion there is comfortable overclocking and extreme.  Comfortable overclocking might be to OC a E2160 (stock 1.8GHz) to 3.0GHz with stock fan, heatsink and voltage.  Thus money is conserved when compared to purchasing a higher priced cpu.  Extreme OC could be spending a thousand dollars to have your cpu run at 4-5GHz.

To generalize: Are you overclocking to save money or for braging rights?

Concerning water cooling,  the advantage to water cooling is the rate of the transfer of thermal energy is greater then with air.  Brainstrorm!  A heatsink would perform much better if  there were liquid flowing through the fins and not a gas (air).

Thats not comfortable overclocking. comfortable overclocking would be taking a 1.86GHz core 2 to around 2.2Ghz.  When you jump over 1000Mhz your way beyond comfortable. 

[ninjageek]

Before the really fast video cards and cpus hit yea overclocking was needed to run games and such. If you already have a dual core whats the point of overclocking it?? Benchmark and bragging rights?

I have the dual core amd 4200 with a video card and my computer is super fast. I can run all the game I want. I can multitask til the cows come home. So overclocking is pointless. Its not gonna improve the speeds of the computer.

I am gonna run this dual core, the next build will be the or motherboard replacement will be the twin dual cores. Just not sold on the quads. The ever popular amd vs Intel will continue on forever. Kinda like the ford vs chevy or even better which browser is better. Its just a matter of taste. Both chips are fast. Both are nice chips. Bench Marking imho is overrated. Either the game runs or it dosent. Either its fast or its not. Its just spliting hairs.

I will say, that 80mm fans while look nice, are a gonna be a thing of the past. The computer is just running a bit to warm for them. 120mm are the way to go. I have 2 120s front and rear and a 80mm at the top. A 120will not fit up there darn it. Sure droped my temps.

[Guest ExtremeFusion]

So with all these fans installed in my CPU,

Will my 600 Watts PSU (power supply units)...be able to sustain it, I mean supply it with enought power?

Aside form having all the hardware installed in my computer... 

[RTB]

Thats not comfortable overclocking. comfortable overclocking would be taking a 1.86GHz core 2 to around 2.2Ghz.  When you jump over 1000Mhz your way beyond comfortable. 

Not in this case, Core 2 Duo has so much headroom that Intel doesn't seem in the least bit worried about Phenom. The architecture just scales that well.

Before the really fast video cards and cpus hit yea overclocking was needed to run games and such. If you already have a dual core whats the point of overclocking it?? Benchmark and bragging rights?

I have the dual core amd 4200 with a video card and my computer is super fast. I can run all the game I want. I can multitask til the cows come home. So overclocking is pointless. Its not gonna improve the speeds of the computer.

And those really speedy cards at stock come at a price. The difference between a 1.8 Ghz dual core and a 3 Ghz one is big, unless you only browse a bit. Take a look at this table, OCing will let you go from just barely playable to perfectly playable with the same CPU, the only difference is the speed it runs at. Take another good look at where your CPU is in that table. It's not just bragging rights, it helps anyone to build an affordable pc that will run just about anything at high quality.

I am gonna run this dual core, the next build will be the or motherboard replacement will be the twin dual cores. Just not sold on the quads. The ever popular amd vs Intel will continue on forever. Kinda like the ford vs chevy or even better which browser is better. Its just a matter of taste. Both chips are fast. Both are nice chips. Bench Marking imho is overrated. Either the game runs or it dosent. Either its fast or its not. Its just spliting hairs.

Enjoy the power usage of those twin dual cores. And IMO you're trying to simplify this waaay too much.

ExtremeFusion: Depends on the brand. Cheap ones claiming 600 watt will only let you run anywhere near that maximum for a minute or so. Never skimp on the PSU.

[ninjageek]

So with all these fans installed in my CPU,

Will my 600 Watts PSU (power supply units)...be able to sustain it, I mean supply it with enought power?

Aside form having all the hardware installed in my computer... 

As you can see, oppinions will always vary on cpu and cooling and overclocking. I have a 400 watt power supply and all is well with mine. Everything runs fine. My last build I cheated somewhat. I bought a barebones system from cpu slolutions. I got the case, power supply, motherboard and cpu prebuilt, My thoughts were if the cpu or powersupply or motherboard went bad it would be there problem. They could not blame it on a mistake putting it together.

From there I just added a bit at a time, I got the ram, hardrives, video card, the dvd burners, and just added it here and there as I found what I wanted at a price I could afford. Its been close to a year now. I got the case, motherboard, cpu, and powersupply plus a copy of xp pro. At the time I paid 600 bucks for it. But the 4200 had just came out, had really great reviews and I believe I paid 190.00 for it. Your power supply should be fine for running all you want.

[dlewis23]

Not in this case, Core 2 Duo has so much headroom that Intel doesn't seem in the least bit worried about Phenom. The architecture just scales that well.

I know that, but when you over clock your processor you over clock everything else and most of the time other parts are not going to scale that well. You take a huge risk with other things when you jump 1200Mhz

[RTB]

I know that, but when you over clock your processor you over clock everything else and most of the time other parts are not going to scale that well. You take a huge risk with other things when you jump 1200Mhz

Ok, for overclocking you generally increase the FSB, which affects memory speed and northbridge speed. Memory can be put on a divider, or you can buy memory made for the overclocked speed; the northbridge can be put on a strap, which lets the FSB go higher. It's not all linked anymore, and don't believe that stock is the only safe solution.

[Guest ExtremeFusion]

Ok, for overclocking you generally increase the FSB, which affects memory speed and northbridge speed. Memory can be put on a divider, or you can buy memory made for the overclocked speed; the northbridge can be put on a strap, which lets the FSB go higher. It's not all linked anymore, and don't believe that stock is the only safe solution.

Really?!  Cool!

[mudmanc4]

Ok, for overclocking you generally increase the FSB, which affects memory speed and northbridge speed. Memory can be put on a divider, or you can buy memory made for the overclocked speed; the northbridge can be put on a strap, which lets the FSB go higher. It's not all linked anymore, and don't believe that stock is the only safe solution.

  Well said , but at the same token , to be able to get to the point of OCing to these levels,( obviously you have experience)  you must have  some experience, you don't just go  into the bios and start geekin things out, , you'll not only be resetting  your bios, but possibly corrupting file systems, and burning MB's.  I was asked a while ago, " why do you OC all your stuff , your not seeing any difference, you just think you are ".!!!  hahahahahahahaha,    BS, I can see less than 100 Mhz.  Can't tell me I can't , because I remember running ,machines that only ran a couple hundred MHz. And less.  I don't do it for the $$$ savings, I do it to see how far I can upclock and stay completely stable. Heat is your worst enemy.  Keep it cool, and don't apply to much voltage to the core.

ok, enough of my ramblings , onward