What does ISP mean by "filter" rendering modem incompatible?

[mvbmac]

I was looking on the website for my ISP, Comcast/Xfinity yesterday and it now identifies my modem as being "incompatible" with my internet plan "based on filters."  What does that mean?  What "filters?"  My current plan speed is 1Gbps download, and my modem is an Arris SB8200 (DOCSIS 3.1), which according to Arris is rated to handle up to 2 Gbps.  I am not aware of any "filters," and don't even know what that is.  The Xfinity website is showing an Arris S33 as compatible with my plan speed (as well as some others, including of course Xfinity's own rental equipment).  The S33 is rated somewhat faster than the SB8200, but not that much more.  Is the Xfinity info on their web site just wrong?  Is the info there a legitimate reason for a modem upgrade?  The SB8200 is not that old.  

 

BTW hello CA3LE - it's been a minute!

[xs1]

1 hour ago, mvbmac said:

I was looking on the website for my ISP, Comcast/Xfinity yesterday and it now identifies my modem as being "incompatible" with my internet plan "based on filters."  What does that mean?  What "filters?"  My current plan speed is 1Gbps download, and my modem is an Arris SB8200 (DOCSIS 3.1), which according to Arris is rated to handle up to 2 Gbps.  I am not aware of any "filters," and don't even know what that is.  The Xfinity website is showing an Arris S33 as compatible with my plan speed (as well as some others, including of course Xfinity's own rental equipment).  The S33 is rated somewhat faster than the SB8200, but not that much more.  Is the Xfinity info on their web site just wrong?  Is the info there a legitimate reason for a modem upgrade?  The SB8200 is not that old.  

 

BTW hello CA3LE - it's been a minute!

 

Other than the website stating your modem is "incompatible", is there an issue your having? 

[mvbmac]

Thanks for the reply.  There's really not been an issue other than I never get the advertised speed.  But that's just SOP with Comcast/Xfinity.  And also due to a little rolloff from the router in another room.  I typically test 400-500 Mbps down and 20 up, and I probably couldn't tell the difference if the down was 1 Gig.

[xs1]

 

2 hours ago, mvbmac said:

Thanks for the reply.  There's really not been an issue other than I never get the advertised speed.  But that's just SOP with Comcast/Xfinity.  And also due to a little rolloff from the router in another room.  I typically test 400-500 Mbps down and 20 up, and I probably couldn't tell the difference if the down was 1 Gig.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it in that case, FIOS/Frontier told me the same thing about their routers... I eliminated their equipment all together and bought an Asus RT-AX82U.. never looked back.  As long as the update/config files are accepted normally & speeds are decent, Im currently running 2 PC's wired, and 23 devices wireless. I dont worry about the ISP's "recommendations". lol  Depending on your areas provisioning & congestion speeds will vary. Even on my 1g/1g fiber, there are times of day where ill see as low as 400/600.  

 

edit for image:

 

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by xs1

[mvbmac]

Thanks so much.  In general, what would they mean by the term "filter"?  I've never heard of a "filter" function in a modem.  The info on their web page that I'm asking about pertains to modems, not routers.  I have a Netgear Nighthawk gaming router and love that.

Edited May 29, 2023 by mvbmac
hit submit button prematurely by accident :)

[CA3LE]

22 hours ago, mvbmac said:

BTW hello CA3LE - it's been a minute!

 

Been a few minutes!    Happy to see you.

 

22 hours ago, mvbmac said:

Comcast/Xfinity yesterday and it now identifies my modem as being "incompatible" with my internet plan "based on filters." 

 

I think what they mean is that it's based on THEIR filter.  The "filter" being 1000 Mbps compatibility, the SB8200 shows on Comcast as being juuuuust under @ 957 Mbps.

 

 

I used an SB8200 for a long time, solid modem.  I think it says 2 Gbps because it has 2x1 Gbps ports and has 2 downstream x 2 upstream DOCSIS channels.  In theory you can pay for two connections with your cable provider but use only one modem.  But it's still only suitable for up to 1 Gbps.

 

I normally advocate for using your only own equipment and follow my own advice, but right now I have a Comcast modem.  They only offer unlimited data if you use their modem. (maybe that's changed by now)

 

I'm only using it for a connection.  It then goes into a router which does everything.  If you have to use their equipment, I'd only trust it to connect me to the internet.  No routing, no wifi... personally, I don't want any ISP having any level of access beyond the gates.  Hey ISP, I want you to give me a tunnel to the internet... nothing else.  If I want more stuff, I'll get it myself. 

 

All we should ever ask is for one thing from them.  An unaltered connection at the speed we pay for.

 

"...but they can reset your password, power cycle your network... do it all on an app, make life easy.  Come on man, trust them!  You're paranoid!" --- having to hit the reset button manually or briefly unplug the modem is a small price to pay for privacy.

 

[cholla]

I have a SB6141 it is fast enough for my max speed.

I own all my equipment.

My router is a Netgear Nighthawk.

I use a surge protection power strip & I shut the modem & router down every night.

So I get a power cycle every day.

[mvbmac]

Thanks CA3LE.  I think you nailed it.  "Filter" is Comcast-speak for Throttle.  I can get a bump to speed well past the 1 Gig barrier for $10/mo.  Considering it.  It's not that I need that much.  I just figure if I can increase speed at the router level, then speeds to connected devices around my home would, despite degradation from walls, etc., increase proportionately.

 

Below are the specs for my WiFi router, a Nighthawk I bought a couple years ago  Assuming I had a modem supporting more than 1 Gig, the router's throughput would carry more than 1 Gig, right?  I'm a little confused by the description of the 7 ports limited to 1Mbps.  I assume those relate to hard-wired LAN Ethernet.  I just don't want to have to buy a new router to break the 1 Gig barrier assuming Comcast delivered that speed.

 

I don't know if I ever mentioned this, but my law practice includes a lot of computer tech.  During the fracas over the FCC adoption and then repeal of the so-called "Net Neutrality" (Open Internet) regulations, I got into the whole subject in depth and found it fascinating though infuriating.  I was hoping that the Biden administration would embrace reinstatement of those regs as well as a more pervasive internet policy.  There is a lot more in their arsenal than the FCC.  The FTC could punish ISP misbehavior, and the Antitrust Division of the Justice Department could theoretically do all kinds of things to stop the abuse of quasi-monopoly power.  As you probably noticed, the ISP's opposed the new FCC Chair nominee with such hostility that she withdrew her nomination and the regulatory situation remains in stalemate.  My research easily uncovered all kinds of continued, pervasive misbehavior by the ISPs.  I did a paper on internet regulation which I'd be glad to send you if you have any interest.  I would want to email it rather than post on this open forum.

 

Sorry to hear you've had to tolerate the Dark Side in order to avoid data limits!

 

Anyway, I'd be most grateful for your insight on whether, assuming my ISP and modem broke the 1Gig barrier, the Nighthawk router would deliver the same without its own 1Gig limit.

 

Always good to chat with you D.

[CA3LE]

10 hours ago, cholla said:

I have a SB6141 it is fast enough for my max speed.

I own all my equipment.

My router is a Netgear Nighthawk.

I use a surge protection power strip & I shut the modem & router down every night.

So I get a power cycle every day.

 

Now I want to make a little device that plugs into USB and when it's powered on plays dial-up modem sounds.  So that when you power on your modem every day it sounds like you're connecting in the 90's.  Cherry on top, "you've got mail!"

 

8 hours ago, mvbmac said:

I did a paper on internet regulation which I'd be glad to send you if you have any interest.  I would want to email it rather than post on this open forum.

 

Please send it, I'd love to read it.

 

8 hours ago, mvbmac said:

Below are the specs for my WiFi router, a Nighthawk I bought a couple years ago  Assuming I had a modem supporting more than 1 Gig, the router's throughput would carry more than 1 Gig, right?  I'm a little confused by the description of the 7 ports limited to 1Mbps.  I assume those relate to hard-wired LAN Ethernet.  I just don't want to have to buy a new router to break the 1 Gig barrier assuming Comcast delivered that speed.

 

That router will have no problem doing 1 Gbps.  It has 7x1 Gbps ethernet ports, hardwired to those connections will get your best performance.  The nighthawk won't even notice it, won't break a sweat.

 

If your connection is over 1 Gbps it can still be beneficial.  You may be limited to 1 Gbps per device on your internal network but if multiple devices are pulling lots of data it can help.  Most people don't have real-world use cases (yet) where they really need that.  

 

10 Gbps has been available forever... but not even 2.5 Gbps LAN has really taken hold yet.  It's still mostly 1 Gbps on the majority of all consumer equipment. 

 

The majority of my own home network is still 1 Gbps.  I have a 10 Gbps network but it's really just for communication from my main computer to my trueNAS server.  There was a while when we went from 10 to 100 then to 1000 Mbps, felt like every few years... seemed like we'd just keep iterating the standard but then it got stuck at 1000 and we're pretty much still there today, decades later.

 

The enterprise (datacenter) world kept iterating.  100 Gbps+.

 

My connection comes from Comcast's modem, into a 1st gen Netgear Orbi router... then runs 100 feet via existing CAT-5 (non-shielded) into a GS724T (26 port Netgear switch) then through a Microtik 10 Gbps switch to finally get to my main console.

 

After all of that, I still pull over 800 Mbps on Comcast regularly.

TestMy.net Test ID : iYtVDPhfC

 

My router is at least a year older than the first Netgear x10 R9000.  Your router isn't just greater than mine because of age... it's a straight up performance machine.  

 

So...... yeah dude, your router will work great.  Feed it more speed.

 

Make sure you vote on this topic to be part of the upcoming TestMy.net beta release.  I'll be giving you some new ways to test your new found internet speed.   

 

 

By the way, I tested 10 Gbps on the 100 ft run.  Wasn't able to get 10 Gbps but got a super solid 5 Gbps using the same equipment.  So for anyone thinking they need to change wiring to get 10 Gbps... not necessarily true.  If that run were a little shorter I bet it would do 10 Gbps. You don't always need special shielded cables.  The CAT-5 in my home is from 2005, basic CAT-5.  But even a 10,000 Gbps network connection isn't going to help you much if all of your computers and connection out to the internet have a 1 Gbps bottleneck. 

 

 

[mvbmac]

I'd rather send the internet policy paper to your email, if you don't mind giving it.  Rather not put it on this semi-public forum.  Unless there's a way I can post something here that only you can see.

 

Your comments about hard-wiring are very interesting and appreciated.  That's not an option for some of my devices.  Is there a 1Gbps limit on the wireless bandwidth from that Netgear Nighthawk X10 R9000?  In other words, let's say, totally hypothetically, that I had a modem capable of 7 Gig and a magical ISP that provided me 7Gig.  And the Nighthawk router connected to that modem.  And assume no degradation of router signal due to walls, etc.  Would a device connected to the internet via the wifi signal from the Nighthawk test at 7 Gig?    You probably can tell, I'm asking because I don't understand the difference between the "Wifi Speed 7.2 Gbps" spec versus the 10/100/1000 ethernet port spec.  In this subject area, you can tell I am way out on the fringe of my comprehension.

 

Well, dumb me.  I just realized if you give me your email on here, it will be public just like my paper would .  You can email me at [private] if you like.

[CA3LE]

37 minutes ago, mvbmac said:

I'd rather send the internet policy paper to your email, if you don't mind giving it.  Rather not put it on this semi-public forum.

 

I don't mind giving it, just don't like typing it in plain txt... bots find it and spam.  I sent you a PM, sorry I meant to send that after I hit submit on my last post.  I removed your email address from your post because this is completely public.  

 

When they say 7.2 Gbps, they mean across the entire router.  Multiple devices would need to connect to achieve that.  802.11ad Wi-Fi  theoretically maxes out at 4.6 Gbps to a single device.  So, if your provider was powerful enough you could maybe get up to 4.3 Gbps on wifi to a single computer.  Your latency would be worse on wifi than on ethernet but you'd be cruisin'.

[mvbmac]

Thank you!  You've helped me understand much better an area previously quite opaque to me!

 

I'm sending you that internet policy article right now.  I did it in 2018, so some of the technical info is outdated or under-inclusive; but the same basic policy issues still haunt us all.

[cholla]

Hi Damon,

I always kept the "You've got mail" sound turned off.

 

I do miss the dial up sounds but I do not miss being connected to AT&T.

I use cable now & have for many years.

I just do not need cables fastest speed.

 

I need to contact Optimum since the switch from suddenlink.

I believe they would upgrade my speed to 300MB from 200Mb.

I might even get a lower price.

Sometimes it's just easier to keep the Status Quo.

 

 

 

 

[xs1]

On 5/30/2023 at 12:29 AM, CA3LE said:

 

Now I want to make a little device that plugs into USB and when it's powered on plays dial-up modem sounds.  So that when you power on your modem every day it sounds like you're connecting in the 90's.  Cherry on top, "you've got mail!"

 

 

 

 @CA3LE

 

Bruuuhh 😆  I would totally buy one, lol! Sadly, now a days, only a select few would know/appreciate what that beautiful noise even was, but it would still be dope. 🙃

Edited May 31, 2023 by xs1

[CA3LE]

22 hours ago, cholla said:

I always kept the "You've got mail" sound turned off.

 

Me too, hated that.  Had AOL for a few months back in the dial-up days. 

 

Funny side story, related to TMN: A 15 year-old friend of mine was the master admin at a local dial-up ISP, he basically built and ran the whole thing for them and had been doing it for years before I met him.  Gave me a lifetime free account, he moved on from there like a year later.  But I ended up having dial-up until they stopped doing it like 10 years later.    Helped me continue to real-world test dial-up here, for freeeee.  

 

 

 

Came in handy on the road too.  And they were always super fast!  Always connecting at the max 56K!  Ahhh, simpler times.  Remember you'd have a 56K modem and AOL (USWest did this to me too.) would connect at 28.8K or 33.6K, "what the hell good is this modem if nobody let's me connect at 56K!?" -- 28.8K to 56K was a big deal, but AOL was big time overcrowded.

 

Check out the 8 different types of dial-up sounds, some you may not have heard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial-up_Internet_access

 

I think it was a 9600 baud modem that I used to connect to my first BBS.  9.6 Kbps or 1.2 kB/s.  Now, the worst I ever see on my phone is 0.08 Mbps or 80 Kbps, 8X faster at it's slowest and that feels painful!  Slower than that and it's not connecting reliably at all.  At one time 80 Kbps was fast, it's all relative.

 

One day we'll say the same about Gigabit.  Kids will be like, "Great-Grandpa, what came before Exabyte internet?  Mommy says you used to have Jibby-Byte internet!"

 

"One point twenty-one JIGGA-WATTS!"

 

[cholla]

Cool on the FREE dial-up.

Even more that it always gave you 56K.

I was sometimes able to connect at 56K but most of the time less.

 

I never used any dial-up modem that was not 56K.

A good friend of mine was into the bulitin boards.

He had a modem that he layed the old style telephone headset into.

I believe it was 9600 baud but may have been even slower.

 

I got started with the Internet which was later.

 

I listened to 4 of the different dial up sounds on the wiki.

I will give the rest a listen to later.

[xs1]

12 hours ago, CA3LE said:

 

Came in handy on the road too.  And they were always super fast!  Always connecting at the max 56K!  Ahhh, simpler times.  Remember you'd have a 56K modem and AOL (USWest did this to me too.) would connect at 28.8K or 33.6K, "what the hell good is this modem if nobody let's me connect at 56K!?" -- 28.8K to 56K was a big deal, but AOL was big time overcrowded.

 

 

 

I remember having NetZero & EarthLink.  We averaged 38k. >.<  Still remember trying to P2P.. never once did we get 56k. simple anime downloads took aaaaggeesss.. 😆