9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future

[cholla]

Miles_Smiles ;I would consider myself right wing & a Christian fundamentalist.However I disagree with Bush as you can tell by my posts.Being a protectionist I'm against Imperialism by the USA as well.To be called the "western twin of Al Quaeda" is insulting though.I don't think you can give one example of  terrorism by Americans that has been done elsewhere in the world. Unless you are considering Bush going to war with Iraq as terrorism.I think once us Americans got past the propaganda from the Bush administration we are in general against the war in Iraq.

I don't think we value our soldiers lives so much more valuable .The Muslims just believe their reward will be greater in Heaven so they are in more of a hurry to get there.

I know this is a British term but if you ever visit you might not want to use the term Yanks in the southern USA.

[FallowEarth]

I know this is a British term but if you ever visit you might not want to use the term Yanks in the southern USA.

Miles_Smiles, if you get the chance, check out the movie Gettysburg (1993).

[tommie gorman]

I think I will enjoy the overseas flavor in this thread.   

And a hardy welcome to the forum Miles_Smiles. 

Heck, bring your pals. 

Or would that be chaps?

[cholla]

Miles_Smiles ;I didn't mean to be inhospitable so I will join tommie gorman  with a welcome to the forum.

FallowEarth;I haven't seen the movie  Gettysburg (1993). I will see if I can get a copy to watch.What should I look for if I do get a copy?

[FallowEarth]

FallowEarth;I haven't seen the movie  Gettysburg (1993). I will see if I can get a copy to watch.What should I look for if I do get a copy?

Oh, just sit back and enjoy!

[Miles_Smiles]

Thanks guys for the welcome.Sorry about the Yanks think,it's just a Brit thing.Terrorism can be state sactioned---look at Israel,(I can say this being part Jewish),look at Iran and Syria! THe Usa are not exempt,Vietnam,Granada,Nicaragua and Palestine. Democracy is what the people want,not what the Western establishment want.Heck Nicaragua,Granada were democracies. .Now you may not like Hamas,but in terms of the percentage of votes,thier mandate is clearer then Bush or Blair's.You could say they blow up folk from another state!! So do the US and UK armies and airforces.

Also Cholla wasn't the oklahoma bomb planted by a christian and an American terrorist.I hope we can be friends despite the fact I'm an athiest and a lefty---its about seeing whats simlar,not the differencies

[tommie gorman]

Christian is a loose term as is athiest. Was he a christian? Only he might know. My ex-wife was an athiest, believed that we are here to enjoy and turn to dirt. But she did wonder about a lot. We actually got along for the most part. 

[cholla]

The Oklahoma City bombing is in a different category.In that it was done In America by an American.There are so many versions it's hard to say what Timothy McVey's reasons were for doing the bombing.Since he was even American born.

The same could be said in any country where the person doing the bombing is a native fellow countryman.It's not the same as something done by a foreigner.

I don't think anyone that did what McVey did could call himself a Christian.I sure don't think other Christian's would call him one.

I think you can see how this differs from Muslim terrorists who are generally praised by there fellow Muslims.Even when they do terrorist acts in their own country it is against other sects of Muslims or Those of other religions or nationalities not their own people.

I posted this I don't think the USA should have been in any war since WW2 the same would go for Brittian.

For Isreal I think the best solution would be to let them take care of themselves with no sanction from the UN or elsewhere.Let them do what the need to to stay a free state .After a couple of strikes by Isreal with them taking whatever spoils of war they could  the Muslims would think about attacking Isreal.

Now on a lighter note.Since in my Christian view all people desended from Adam & Eve. So we are all part Jewish or completly Jewish as far as race goes.From the blackest of the African continent the the lightest Scandinavian.

I won't evangelize but I had a friend that was an atheist who eventually became a Christian so I hope it works the same for you.

[FiosFiend]

FiosFiend;I'm old enough to remember the Jones incident.It had been long enough ago I didn't even think about it.But I remember there was evidence that some of the congregation was forced to drink the Kool Aid so not all blindly followed.

The only ones that were forced, were the kids who didn't know better.  The adults drank freely and knowingly.

I understand the insult now.I don't think I fit the blindly following type.  As for calling Bush stupid I think if you read what I have posted it will say the Stupid is an act to fool those that will believe it.Because you don't pay as much attention to someone you consider stupid.

For hating Bush yes since I believe he had a part in planning the destruction of the Towers & sent troops into Iraq getting American soldiers killed for no reason.

If you actually believe that Bush had anything to do with 9/11 then you are a Kool Aid drinker of the FIRST ORDER!  Insult intended.  To believe that any US President is truly that Evil goes beyond the pale and makes you look like an absolute FOOL.  You may not like Bush as I did not like Clinton.  But I always believed that Clinton had the best interest of the country in mind.  Though I completely disagreed with how the chose to govern.  I absolutely believe that Bush has the best interest of the Country in mind.

Being a Texan & having had him as governor I've had longer to develop the hate. As for whether Saddam should have been in power in Iraq that wasn't for the USA to decide.

Actually it was for the USA as well as the UN to decide, which they did under resolution 1441 which gave the US and UN the express authority to use military action against Iraq for non compliance.  Saddam failed in just about every way to comply with this resolution and the UN did nothing about it.  So, as usual, it fell to the US to act.

....Then if Saddam used WMD's most of the rest of the world would have been with the USA instead of so many opposed.  If Iraq or any country has WMD's against invasion whats our problem so do we.  It is only using them for an offensive attack that I have a problem with.

Okay, first the rest of the World has spent the last 30 years turning a blind eye to the Middle East.  Which is exactly what led to 9/11.  Jesus I believe it's going to take another 9/11 for people like you to get it through their thick skulls that we live in a different time.  The jihadists want you DEAD!  They don't care what your party affiliation is or whether or not you like or hate G.W.  You're an American and they want you dead.  But you don't understand that.  People like you seem to have a vested interest in seeing the US fail in Iraq.  What you don't understand is that the consequences of failure are long lasting and dire.  Radical Islam has a stated goal of World domination by 2050!  Unless you happen to be Muslim then your head will roll if that happens.

To put it simply we should mind our business & let the other countries mind theirs.If we had been doing this since WW2 then I don't think we would have been attacked by The Middle Eastern terrorists.And hopefully wouldn't have had Bush for a President.

Christ are you serious???!!  This is EXACTLY what has led to 9/11! 

As for beating Kerry if Bush hadn't fixed the first election

 

Break out the Kool Aid!

[Miles_Smiles]

Tommy I guess I should call myself a "humanist".I have no proble with other peoples belief systems,except for when they kill and maim.I guess I'm boring, in that for me scientific method is my belief system.Nice to hear from you and thanks for the welcome

[Miles_Smiles]

Fios fiend I am not a supporter of Clinton,I'm way to the left of that.I wonder who the fool is,the man who tosses insults around who believes he knows all.Or the guy who knows he knows little,but likes to converse and swop ideas.Even with those he may disagree with.All men are of equal worth in my Universe.Even Islamists and know-alls.

[cholla]

FiosFiend ;I haven't researched the Jonestown I just put what I remembered.I have stated what I think of Bush & Roosevelt for that matter.

I would let countries control their own destiny if they stayed out of ours.If we had been minding our own business for the last 60 years I don't think there would have been any terrorist attacks here.

So far the praying for Hellfire & brimstone to fall on the Middle East like Sodom & Gemorrah hasn't worked for me.But I'm going to keep praying.

[FiosFiend]

Fios fiend I am not a supporter of Clinton,I'm way to the left of that.I wonder who the fool is,the man who tosses insults around who believes he knows all.Or the guy who knows he knows little,but likes to converse and swop ideas.Even with those he may disagree with.All men are of equal worth in my Universe.Even Islamists and know-alls.

I'm all in favor of swapping ideas but when someone starts spouting crap about the President of the United States was involved in 9/11 I have to call BULLSHIT on it.  I'm not even a far rightwinger, I'm a monderate who voted for Clinton in his first bid for the Presidency.  My views of the world changed completely on 9/11.  I'm not a know-it-all but I know that views like Chola's are garbage.

[FiosFiend]

FiosFiend ;I haven't researched the Jonestown I just put what I remembered.I have stated what I think of Bush & Roosevelt for that matter.

I would let countries control their own destiny if they stayed out of ours.If we had been minding our own business for the last 60 years I don't think there would have been any terrorist attacks here.

So far the praying for Hellfire & brimstone to fall on the Middle East like Sodom & Gemorrah hasn't worked for me.But I'm going to keep praying.

I disagree with your first point.  The Middle East has been a bubbling cauldrin of trouble for nearly a thousand years.  It is only since the world has started to become more globalized that it's starting to affect everyone.  Hey, as long as the Arabs and the Jews are blowing each other up I got no problems.  It's when their bullshit starts to spill out onto the rest of us that start getting hot.

[tommie gorman]

Personally wish we could have worked it out with the U.N. and let them help us mop up after we started it. Would have been a lot less publicity like this if the U.N. were there, and it would not have cost so much. As for France, well I still will not drink their wine! 

Another Germany split 4 ways would have worked well! 

[cholla]

I guess FiosFiend & I are going to disagree on this.We each have our opinions & I haven't seen anything that changes mine.I probably really wouldn't nuke the whole Middle East not that anyone is going to give me the opportunity anyway.

One problem I do have with the Middle East is now that the USA has meddled in their affairs the USA will never have peace with them.They can't even have peace with each other even when all sides are Muslims.If we had just let them settle it like they have tried for centuries & stayed out of it then we wouldn't be part of the jihad.

I will continue to post my opinion & let FiosFiend post his without answer from me.I will discuss with others in the topic.

I brand George W. Bush a coward even if he has managed to hide his National Guard awol's during Viet Nam since he became President,a traitor for selling his country out for a better deal with the Saudis,& a murder for the people killed as a result of September 11, the ones in the Towers & the ones that tried to rescue them.& the soldiers killed since.

[deven]

Let me wade in, If your mate gets a lump on their breast, do you simply ignor it till it kills you. The muslims are the butchers on this planet. The UN is only supporting itself, like how much money and power the individual members get. Were basically a christian nation and try to turn the other cheek. But that classroom bully is never going to change,in anyway, without force, then its only subdue, not change. How do you help people who have no respect for life. You all know its mostly the white race that has any feelings for the other races. We have the mental ability to view the otherside of any situation. The worst part is mostly we are ashamed that we can't solve everyone elses problems. So we beat them out in forums. God Love Ya

[cholla]

deven ;This is my belief on race.We are one race on the Earth .We all are descendants of the one pair Adam & Eve.There are just color & feature variations.This is true even if you pick a shade such as "white"( not really any white people if your talking about the actual color white)Lets say Caucasian even here a great variety of color & features.All mankind has the same number of chromosomes thats why we can breed with each other & produce fertile offspring.Even what scientists call our closest relative the chimpanzee we can't breed with .Even to produce infertile offspring.I mention this because a few species can crossbreed like horses & donkeys to produce mules .Mules are almost always infertile.So for the most part crossbreeding is not possible.If all of mankind considered us all one race there would be more peace.Not complete peace.

Religion can be a problem some kill in the name of religion .I'm Christian but you have to admit that at least those that called themselves Christian have killed in the name of Christianity.

Muslims seem to be the worst in present times killing even different sects of Muslims.The other religions they consider false so killing "infidels" is a good thing to them.

The Japanese & German Nazi's during WW2 were butchers also.To the Jews the Nazis were worse .To POW's the Japanese were worse.

I don't have any Friends that are Middle Eastern or Muslim so I can't say that any have compassion or that they don't have compasion.The other people of different color I have met & been friends with some.I have found both warm & friendly individuals as well as cold & mean ones.I can say the same about Caucasians.Or have you never had a "white " person stab you in the back.If you haven't you probably haven't lived long enough.

Right now would I watch a Middle Eastern person closer ?Yes

If I knew he was a Muslim even closer.I call that necessary prejudice or self-preservation .Sad thing is in many cases this wouldn't be necessary.

[deven]

Basically you look at who is trying to help anyone on this planet and they're mostly cristian, regardless of skin tone. Its something to do with learning morals. And I agree they're some bad apples. We shouldn't feel guilty because others Kill or Starve, but we do.

[resopalrabotnick]

whatever you may think of the us and its allies going into iraq and afghanistan, rummyworld is working.

all the crazed ragheads (no, not an ethnic or religious slur against muslims, just against the scum that kills for kicks and justifies it with some twisted form of muslim beliefs) are blowing shit up over there instead of here. while it is sad to see allied troops getting hurt it is good to say they are successful in baiting the bastards into staying over there. maybe at some point the population over there will recognize that while having the fanatics blow shit up overseas it's quite a different matter if their corner falafel store gets bombed twice a month just because a few cops frequent it.

[FiosFiend]

I brand George W. Bush a coward even if he has managed to hide his National Guard awol's during Viet Nam since he became President,a traitor for selling his country out for a better deal with the Saudis,& a murder for the people killed as a result of September 11, the ones in the Towers & the ones that tried to rescue them.& the soldiers killed since.

Chola, if anyone in this country is guilty of being a murderer because of action (or inaction) over 9/11 it's Bill Clinton.  He knew of the threat of Bin Laden back in the early 90's and did nothing about it.  We had the man and his higher ups in our gun sights (LITERALLY) at least 3 times and Clinton didn't pull the trigger because he was afraid of what the rest of the world would thing.  He chose to play politics instead of taking down the man that would ultimately plan the attacks of 9/11. 

You should read the following story on the missed opportunities to take down bin Laden.  Read this and then tell me who was more to blame for 9/11, Clinton or Bush.

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

[richcornucopia]

Chola, if anyone in this country is guilty of being a murderer because of action (or inaction) over 9/11 it's Bill Clinton.  He knew of the threat of Bin Laden back in the early 90's and did nothing about it.  We had the man and his higher ups in our gun sights (LITERALLY) at least 3 times and Clinton didn't pull the trigger because he was afraid of what the rest of the world would thing.  He chose to play politics instead of taking down the man that would ultimately plan the attacks of 9/11. 

You should read the following story on the missed opportunities to take down bin Laden.  Read this and then tell me who was more to blame for 9/11, Clinton or Bush.

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

With a name like Clinton_let_bin_laden I'm guessing it's Clinton.

[FiosFiend]

If my previous story link is not credible enough for you then here is great story from the Washington Post that outlines 10 opportunities that Clinton had to take down bin Laden.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A127-2004Jul20.html

[resopalrabotnick]

congratulations. you have 20/20 hindsight. wow.

if clinton had taken down bin laden, he would have been called evil, warmongering, criminal, etc. for meddling in other countries affairs, proceeding without due process of the law and and and. now that he decided to play by the rules, he is wrong as well. what a surprise.

it's like law enforcement. we got the man that did it sounds better than we got the man that would have done it, especially when someone says prove it.

[fred]

I truly admire all of your comments, however I am deeply worried about what you speak, if you read some of the Patriot Act you could possibly be violating the law and could be put in a prison system that you have no recourse to or way out of because your thoughts could be considered terrorist, with the way the law is now written so be careful Big Brother is listening and watching. Fred