CA3LE

Oh, if I had a nickel for every time an ISP blamed my site for their shortcomings. They can say whatever they want. But the truth is... TestMy.net is unbiased in its results. The results you get here are a real world scenario not a best case scenario. The tests that your ISP sends you to is tested under best case scenario conditions. The funny thing is, Time Warner Cable says that this test is inaccurate... yet before they had their own test they used to send their customers here. Actually, I'm pretty sure that back in the early 2000's a tech support operator told us that TestMy.net was actually in their handbook, a part of their troubleshooting procedure. Think about this, they have the ultimate incentive to have you test your connection with as little variables as possible. A company like TWC can save millions in service calls by making you feel all warm and fuzzy when you use their 'approved' tests and score high. "Oh, the problem must be the websites you're visiting..." --- The truth is though, if you didn't feel like their results were BS you wouldn't have come looking for this site. Right? You can feel that your connection isn't right... correct? Speedtest.net self admittedly alters your results. They DROP the bottom 30% and top 10% of the results... to make up for the fact that flash isn't a good protocol to use for testing Internet speed. They also open 4+ threads... meaning that you're doing multiple downloads at once. Sorry, but a good connection with a quality route can max out with only one thread. It makes connections look better than they are. I can't see Time Warner's speed test (apparently it's only available to Time Warner customers... they must not want their test under third party scrutiny.). ...If their test is made by Ookla... the same is true because Ookla is the creators of speedtest.net. The results here have been trusted by MANY people for MANY years before Time Warner even thought of hosting their own test. Far longer than speedtest.net has been around. Choose to believe what you want to believe but realize... this isn't my first rodeo. Testing connection speed is all I do and I have no vested interest in making your connection look better or worse than it is. TMN has multiple gigabit (1000 Mbps) uplinks into one of the most powerful networks on the planet (currently over 2000 Gbps of available bandwidth, peering with over 25 Tier 1 providers... Time Warner actually peers directly with my host with 8x 10Gbps connection), hundreds of thousands of websites are hosted on the same network. If your speed is effected to TestMy.net, it's effected elsewhere too. ... Like I've said before. Which do you think is a more accurate portrayal of your speed? Testing from next door or testing where the websites you visit are actually hosted? Testing with a test that alters the results or one that doesn't? Having said that, your speeds aren't all that bad. Now, when you paid for 20 Mbps and got 10, different story. It would be better to see 80%+ of what they quote, which would be 40 Mbps

Yes, very well said RTB... having said that though, I do plan on offering a test that does this. Coast to Coast speed test that will give you an idea of your average speed nationally. I've actually already been building the backend with this in mind so that when I'm ready it will be relatively easy to piece together. So look for this in the near future. My provider isn't actually The Planet anymore, it's Softlayer. The Planet was awesome but Softlayer is far more powerful. They bought them out a couple years or so ago. DNS still resolves to the old name. After my next server upgrade the name should resolve correctly to Softlayer. Last time I upgraded The Planet gave me such an awesome deal it's been hard to beat it... for the longest time I went to their website and to make a comparable build it was like $1000/month. By the last time I got a new server I had been with The Planet for over a decade... so I was able to negotiate an awesome deal. Prices are coming down though so I'm thinking it's almost time for another upgrade. I'm getting at least 16 cores and solid state drives this next time around. It's going to be beast! queries so fast my users will be like ... Congested routes aren't something you want to compensate for in your results. That's valuable information... that's part of your performance. It often times doesn't effect your connection across the entire Internet... but if the congested route is close to home it can. If it's effecting your speed to TestMy.net's server.... it's effecting your speed to other sites as well. I purposely pick popular hubs that have high bandwidth. Let me put it this way, in the Dallas datacenter where TMN is hosted... there are 104,000+ servers. Some host single sites... some can host hundreds of sites on one server. These generally aren't small no name sites either, people with small sites don't tend to spend that kind of money on a dedicated server solution. ...... so, if your speed is effected to TestMy.net, you're speed is effected to other sites as well. The Coast to Coast test isn't going to be intended on compensating, it's more to give you a broader picture of your Internet speed.

First, welcome back! Been a while since you've logged in. One of the first 1000 members, I'm glad to see you're still visiting. Under certain circumstances the progress bar can lag... which doesn't effect the outcome of the test. I've seen this on VNC and on Android 2.x phones. When I've seen this it never pauses, then turns into a fluid progress bar (meaning that it moves smoothly). It will pause then JUMP... as if the browser couldn't keep up with the java used to update the progress. Regardless of how the progress bar updates the flow of data is uninterrupted. On the other hand you might have an issue that's causing this. If it pauses, moves, pauses... then the bar fluidly moves for the remainder of the test... I'd bet that there is something wrong. First thing I would check would be MTU. You're on Bell South, which is DSL (right?)... PPPoE. Which means that the optimal MTU for your computer and router is 1492. Optimal MTU for cable Internet and most other providers is 1500. When I was on DSL for a while I was having a similar issue... my equipment was configured for my previous cable connection (I'm back on cable and don't miss fiber DSL at all, okay... the upload was pretty awesome. My connection on cable is much more stable and is especially much better for gaming. Plus, my nick is CA3LE... lol.) and changing the MTU resulted in a drastic difference. Like night and day. Check this out... CA3LE March to April 2010 -- you can see where I fixed it and stabilized my connection. (note that some of the results in that query are unrelated... TMN didn't have the filtering and identifying options back then so I can't narrow the search down to exactly the related tests. Only pay attention to the Qwest.net results). It's a very important setting and can have a profound impact on your performance. An easy way to tune your TCP stack in windows is with Speedguide.net's TCP Optimizer. But your router may also need to be configured correctly for PPPoE, it may have an MTU setting or may just ask you what type of connection you have. If you're coming from a different provider it's pretty common for this to be incorrectly set. Here's a topic very similar to this one... Hanging while testing - I think his issue was resolved with a new NIC. So that could be the issue too. A little side information, TestMy.net is different than the rest. If you test on the majority of other Internet speed tests out there you may not see this effecting your results... because they've designed their tests to ignore the worst part of your results. I personally don't understand the mindset behind that, it shows where their interests lie... hint, they don't work for your best interest. TestMy.net on the other hand just calls it how it sees it. If there is a pause in the flow of information, it's reflected in the results. Say that you download a 10MB file and it takes 10 seconds. Let's say that there is an extra 2 second pause at the beginning of that download. You might not notice it because once the download starts to flow it's going fine...... but does that mean that the 2 second pause never happened? Hell no! Even though it might have happened without you noticing, it still happened. In turn effectively dropping your speed for that download by about 17%. Now, let's say that you were downloading only 1 MB at the same speed, then the issue is compounded and effectively drops your speed by about 67%. I've had users, especially satellite users, that tell me that I should design the test to start the time after the speed has picked up... but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the test? If your connection has pauses and blips, that's important information to know. It's the reason that you came here... right? You might stabilize at 8 Mbps (in our theoretical scenario) but that doesn't mean that's your real speed. Issues that cause that kind of problem make a HUGE impact on browsing speed, VoIP, gaming... etc. Ignoring that crucial information is exactly what most speed tests do, something TestMy.net will never do.

Never mind, I saw your other post saying it was satellite. ... Have you tried to bypass the router and directly connect to one of the computers? Try that on your very best computer so that the router can be taken out of the equation. The router could have an issue that's causing it to drop packets so the first thing to do is test without the network. If your issue clears up... well then you know it's the router (could be a simple setting... or you could need a new one). If the problem persists we've got a deeper issue, we'll try to help you resolve. So Xplornet basically told you that they couldn't care less? Your VoIP was working fine until recently? -D

You may be getting routed through a route that's picking up the slack for some of the downed routes due to Super Storm Sandy. A lot of people started emailing me and posting since that happened. Many of which said, "... I started seeing slower speeds right after the Hurricane..." What state are you in? I see that you're testing only to the main server. You might want to try testing to one or more of the other servers. On the TestMy.net homepage at the top you can choose a different test server. ... this issue is intermittent and it's happening during peak hours so it must be routing. ... doesn't mean that the test is wrong. That's the speed you're getting to Texas... other servers you visit in Texas may or may not take the same route. But along the route to TMN you're hitting a snag. TMN's main server is hosted in a very popular location so this means that your connection is most likely degraded to many other sites as well. Let me know what you get to the other locations. -D ... by the way, WELCOME!

Are you using Xplornet's satellite or fixed wireless?

Good to see. Welcome!

Advertising baby! Bandwidth is cheap compared to what people pay for a slice of attention. How do you think TestMy.net has survived for so long without ever charging anyone? As long as people keep supporting my advertisers, I don't care how much bandwidth they draw. YouTube has massive bandwidth needs... but is also massively supported by advertising. Another thing to consider. YouTube, is owned by Google... Google created AdSense. People that post YouTube videos can link their AdSense account and earn a portion of the revenue from Google. So not only is bandwidth not a factor to them... they're making enough that they're willing to share profit... and give you the Lion's share. It pushes people to create higher quality content... Google is truly smart. ... Oh and how they store it. A lot of servers... across the globe. And a lot of memory.

The file that you're getting from Microsoft and Adobe is no doubt being served via CDN (content delivery network) so the file is served from an optimal location. TestMy.net is also served from an optimal location, where a lot of the websites you visit are actually hosted. Unless you specify a location you're tested from Dallas, TX. But if you're anywhere in the US this is a great, centralized testing location. The amount of bandwidth going through Texas is the reason TMN has been hosted there since the early days. Where are you located? I see that you haven't tried any of the other testing locations. Go to the TestMy.net homepage and try changing the server at the top of the page. Due to distances your speed will be different to the various servers. A significantly slower speed to any of the servers usually points to a problem with the route to that server. If you have certain configuration issues you'll see the same slow speeds to all servers. Here's my last tests https://testmy.net/st...q=6436733977554 This is a pretty typical result from my Cox Communications 50/5 connection. Sometimes I'm faster, sometimes I'm slower. These results were pretty expected and didn't send off any alarms that I had any problems. Will I be able to download faster or slower than these speeds... yes and yes. Depends on the server I'm taking the file from... also depends on if that download is multithreaded. (meaning it's split and opens more than one connection to download the file, TMN is single thread.... a good connection on a properly configured computer will be able to max on a single thread and shouldn't need multiple threads to max the speed... if you only achieve your advertised speed by opening multiple connections, you may have a configuration issue. [most likely MTU] This could also point to limitations of the provider or the provider limiting the consumer. Multithreaded speed testing is another way I think that many of the provider hosted speed tests make customers connections look better than they are. They often open 4 to 8 connections, then add the results together. Yeah, you may be maxing out your line... but why do you have to open so many connections to do that?) First tests were taken with SmarTest sizing. Then I did 50MB download and 6MB upload to each of the servers. As you can see, my speeds to Europe are slower. Which is to be expected given the distance. Below you can see a result taken around the same time from Seattle WA, which is a greater distance than I am from Amsterdam. So it doesn't always have to do with distance. It's the quality of the connections that you're routed through along those distances. Testing your connection to a further location is actually more of a test than close by. It's tells a lot about who your provider peers through and who those peers in turn peer with. It's my belief that the further out you can test and maintain quality connection... the better the connection and ISP. The Internet is everywhere, not just near by... you want a connection that performs at distance. ... Depending on where you are, you also may be effected by the aftermath of Super Storm Sandy. A lot of lines were cut and a lot of traffic was rerouted and in turn congested some routes on the east coast USA. Test to the other servers and you can get a better idea if you just have a bad route to the main server.

Damn... MS pisses you off pretty bad.

Looks pretty lame to me. While it was supposedly uploading it actually wasn't. I tried to test from one of my ubuntu servers remotely and it wouldn't even work. Tested at TMN at the same time... That's my true speed speed right now. I can only speak for TestMy.net. If you read the speed test legitimacy page you'll understand why the results here can be trusted. ...and why the other speed tests fail to deliver accurate results. Pay special attention to the "What About My Providers Speed Test" tab...

I haven't tried testing on any consoles for a long time. I'll post my PS3 scores later.

All of the mirror servers here are Ubuntu... I run RHE on the main server but next time I upgrade the home server I may change that to Ubuntu also. Very stable... Those servers have what feels like infinite uptime... Hundreds of days without rebooting or restarting any services. It runs great for a server environment. You're not a newbie... Haven't been for many years.

I don't think you're whining at all. Simply voicing your opinion, That's a big fail on Microsoft's part. Sounds like too big of a change. If users had the option to use the classic look then they could make the transition easier for users. I think it's pretty cool that the Windows 8 upgrade is only $39.99. Much more in line with what the price of an upgrade should be. They obviously learned that price point from Apple. Although OSX Mountain Lion upgrade 10.8.2 is only $19.99 ... IMO MS should price it at $19.99 ... Also cool that the upgrade price can be used from Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7. OSX upgrade requires that you're running 10.6.8 or greater so you have to incrementally upgrade which in the end costs more. I personally run all Apple and Linux. I have virtual machines of pretty much every operating system but only use them for development purposes. OSX makes me much more efficient, I'm glad I left the PC world and got real computers. --- TMN has always run on linux. You really can't beat linux for website hosting.

You're the first person to get that. You just earned yourself a Sophist title. Including yourself only 26 people have earned that title. ... I've actually never seen anyone else do that. When I put that up I did so with the intention on giving the first person who mentioned it a Sophist account. I was going to do it in BASE64 or HEX but I figured that would take too long for anyone to get it. My Son put it as his location too, but I think I told him... plus he's already a Sophist. Sophist - The Greek word sophos, or sophia, has had the meaning "wise" or "wisdom" - Wikipedia Sophist. It's been a title we've had here forever and it's rare that it's handed out to anyone. It's more of a title than extra permissions. But it does give your account a few extra abilities... more maximum private messages, more attachments per post... and a bunch of other little extra stuff. It makes you look cooler too. Here's a list of the others that have earned this in one way or another.

So you can't put Windows 8 into a classic Windows desktop style? I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. But I've been reading that it hasn't had the traction that Micosoft would have wanted. I haven't played with 'The Surface' either... but I don't think that they stand a chance in the tablet market. Software support will be a big factor. Apple and Andriod have that on lock down.

Where are you at? There are a lot of routes on the east coast that are congested right now due to Hurricane / Superstorm Sandy. Routes that may be along the way to your routing to the west coast. Think of it this way, infrastructure gets destroyed... the remaining traffic gets rerouted to the remaining pipes... those pipes then become congested because of all the extra traffic. I've been getting a lot of emails from people since the storm and most of them already suspected the storm had something to do with it. You might fall into that category. This is a reason that TMN is a great way to test your Internet speed. Your being tested outside of your providers network, which puts important factors like your route into the equation. If you simply took Comcast's word for it you might think that it was just the websites you visited... Well, the datacenters I host at are running business as usual. And trust me, I host purposely in popular net hubs... So if your speed is effected here... other sites you visit will be effected as well, as you said, you can feel that your speed isn't right. They'll try to blame it on you... They'll try to blame it on me... They'll try to blame it on the sites you visit. But most likely, your hitting a bottleneck along the way that's probably caused by too many people having to be forced down a pipeline that can't handle that much traffic. Just know that according to all the consumer feedback flooding my inbox since the disaster... you're not alone. Comcast however is most likely still delivering on their promise... But the pipes along the route, some of them being peers of Comcast, aren't. But A LOT was destroyed. If that's the case, it's beyond their control until infrastructure is repaired.

Thanks... That's my logo dude... It isn't going anywhere

When I ordered my iPhone 5 there was a two week wait. This gave me time to think about the case I was going to buy. While I was searching for the coolest cases available I found this article. http://gizmodo.com/5...r-your-iphone-5 The guy was absolutely right, why the hell would I buy the thinest, lightest most beautiful handheld device ever devised... only to cover it up. So I want to tell you guys some reasons I feel that it's dumb to put a case your iPhone. Let me start off by saying, I just came from a DroidX. I NEVER put a case on it. I had ghost armor on it at first but took it off. Once I felt the phone the way the designers intended I loved it ten times more. It just felt better in my hand, the screen felt like silk compared to the urethane film. I ran it that way from then on. By the time I was done with it there wasn't a single scratch on the screen or backing and only a few minor nicks on the corners. It gave it character. Looked a hundred times better than an ugly scratched up case. I had the DroidX for about 2 1/2 years and finally broke it when I dropped it from about 4 feet (for the 100th time). Funny thing is... it wasn't really broken, it still functioned correctly, the screen wasn't cracked. It just had these lines on the display that after a couple of days merged into 5 pencil eraser sized orbs. The DroidX, like the iPhone 5, is an aluminum body but doesn't have the added benefit of Gorilla Glass. I was thinking of putting a case on the iPhone 5 because I heard that its aluminum finish scratched easily. Then I thought about it... who would stand to benefit from putting out bad press about the finish scratching... hummm... who might want to do that... the manufactures of the cases! That's who! Thinnest, lightest and most stunning designs in mobile device history. Do you really want to cover that beauty up? Aluminum body, Gorilla Glass 2 and obviously solid state... it's harder to damage than people think If you're going to cover the device up its whole life... why are you protecting it from scratches? Nobody's going to see it that way! Screen protectors, GROSS! I hate when I see someone's cloudy, scratched up screen protector. How do you use your phone like that? You're killing your experience! Like I said, my DroidX had no scratches with over 2.5 years of use. I wasn't particularly careful with it either. Anyone who knows me will tell you... I'm hard on stuff. If that device can handle my abuse, the iPhone with it's advantage of newer technology will definitely get the job done. It's anodized aluminum... it can scratch. After two weeks of use I see a few really small scuffs on the edges. But who cares! It gives it character. And it's not at all noticeable unless you are nearsighted and right up on it. If you were going to put a case on there you'll have a beautiful phone that nobody will ever see. I'll take my chances and use the phone the way the people who designed it intended. Now for the alternative If you want a case simply to give your iPhone a personal touch, it will do that. But I'll do you one better. I live in Phoenix, AZ. I decided that I wanted to engrave a design on my iPhone so I sent out about 10 emails to various local engravers. All but two told me, "We don't want to be responsible for something like that. It's too expensive if we mess it up." Another told me, "I'll give it a try but I've never done that before so I can't guarantee you anything." ... but the first person to respond ended up being the best to go with. Kyle from Phoenix Custom Lasering was quick to respond (I got a response in less time than if I had ordered a pizza, some others didn't email me back for 3-4 days) and even helped me by building my graphics into vector (vector graphics turn out sharper and less pixelated). A couple of days after my phone arrived I took it to their shop in North Phoenix and was pleased to see that it was a very nice family operation. They made me feel welcome and already had my design laid out ready to print when I stepped through the door... even though I only gave them 10 minutes notice of my arrival. Minutes later my iPhone 5 could never be mistaken for someone else's ever again. The results are stunning. People that see it think I have a sticker on it, "No dude, that's engraved on the aluminum!" --- "Whhhhhhaaaaat!" Want to watch it being engraved? They posted a youtube video... Want yours done? This isn't limited to iPhone's, they can engrave just about anything. For instance, they showed me these cool paintball gun barels they did, so even if the object is rounded their equipment can handle the task. Go to Engrave My iPhone or Phoenix Custom Lasering for more information. Prices are very reasonable, iphone $50, ipad mini $65, ipad $70, laptops $75. If you get more than one item done, they might cut you a deal. If you don't live in Phoenix you can mail them your device. Or you can take a risk with someone local. But I can tell you from my personal experience, these guys know what they're doing. They showed me the design on a test piece of anodized aluminum before they put it on my phone so I could see how it would look. Off to the side I noticed about 4 other pieces of scrap that they had tested my design on... it was obvious that they were being sure that they had the intensity and alignment just right so that the end result was as good as it could be. As you can see, the care and preparation they took before hand shows itself in the end result. Set your device apart... tattoo it. Don't cover it. If you treat it the way a $650-$850 device should be treated... you'll be fine. If you plan on treating it like crap... well then you should probably get an otter box and turn your beautiful device into a ugly brick. You're call. If I break my iPhone 5... I'll update this topic.

Thanks Mike, kind words. I appreciate your support. Sounds like your interested in some of the same things I am... And others on TMN. You must be cool haha. Thanks for your patronage, please spread the word. -D

Thanks! I'm working on more servers in the future. No flatter button... If you'd like to support the site, support my advertisers. If you see an ad for something your interested in, click it and buy it. I took the Paypal donations years ago because the ads I have are more than enough. Keep visiting, I have a lot more in store.

So you want it to only show the results from that batch of tests? I'll be redoing the graphing system soon. Not graphically but how the data generation is done. I've got a few ideas I want to implement ... One will be to graph time on the chart.

Welcome!

I know people with 2,4,6,8 years of college and they can't get jobs right now. I feel really sad for them... it's rough out there. The point that I'm trying to get across is that college is in many cases a dying system. Everyone will always tell you, "College graduates earn ___% more than people with a high school diploma..." What they don't tell you is in some cases they're paying that extra money to school. And have to work a low wage job until they actually find work that's willing to pay them what they think they're worth. So really, if you do the math... you can end up earning less. In my opinion, your better off saving the money and... A: starting your own business. B: starting at the bottom and paying your dues on the job. --- Starting your own business for instance... if you spend the amount of money that you would spend on school on starting something, yes, it's a risk. But how is going to college, putting aside 2,4,6 or 8+ years of your life and coming out to find a saturated job market any different? I personally would rather be making money than spending money.... ESPECIALLY since everything you would EVER want to know is at your finger tips these days. I guess some people need the structure of someone telling them what to do. So if you can't think for yourself, maybe college is the path for you. By the way, I'm not at all talking bad on people who have gone to college. Times were different in the past and it served its purpose. For some jobs it's totally necessary. But for many jobs... it's a total waste of your personal resources. You can pay your dues with Benjamins... or pay them with your time and earn money while you do it. I would way rather hire someone that's paid with blood, sweat and tears than dollar bills. I'm not alone, I've been on jobs in the past where the people that had been there for 20-30 years LAUGHED when someone got hired out of technical college. "Oh look, another guy fresh out of school that doesn't know anything but thinks he knows everything... let's start a betting pool for how long he'll last." -- NO JOKE! ... and they were right, they usually didn't last and always had misinformation as to the correct way to do things. .... I started the same job, in a bitch boy position and learned from the masters in 1/20th of the time, made money while I did it and earned the respect of the old guys. Before I knew it, I was promoted. If I had gone to school it would have delayed my future. ... this information isn't coming from an unsuccessful person. I'm not going to be a douche and tell you how much I money I make... but I will tell you this. I bought my first house before I could legally buy my first beer. ... and I haven't had a boss or 'job' in over 8 years. School is over rated and over priced. But what do I know... I'm just a drop out.

first.... this is going to be a long post, read it... don't read it... whatever, I type more than I realize sometimes. Take it as you will. (this was typed after the post) Oh it's crazy... I'm on my iPhone 5 right now. I have more power at my fingertips right now that I could have ever imagined even a few years ago. 10-20 years ago it would have made my brain melt. It doesn't surprise me that your son knew the limitations before you did... My son is the same way. Kids these days are totally in tune with technology. I tend to think I'm pretty in tune but really.... .... Man, if you compare his rate of development with mine. I'm so old school. Not that old school is bad... But seriously... In a few years he'll be passing me up if he keeps up his pace. And I've been programming pretty much my entire life. The rate of progression between generations is insane. Kids are not only smarter than we were... are... They have the tools online to teach them faster. We're on the dawn of a knowledge revolution. Kids are going to realize soon that in many cases the collegiate way of learning only drains personal resources. When you have the entire human knowledge at your fingertips the old methods of learning are a really a limitation. When you learn traditionally you learn at the schools pace and learn what they want you to learn. Gaining knowledge outside of the system is something I've practiced for... Well... Since I was five or six. First with the "World Book" my Mom got for our family. I really owe my quest for information to that. It was kinda outdated for some information, like the info on the Soviet Union before the Cold War but a lot of information was still relevant. I looked things up for fun, outside of school just because I wanted to know... the predecessor to the the Internet IMO. Once I was introduced to the Internet knowledge expanded upon that beyond my wildest dreams and it continues to amaze me the vastness of what I can know online. Although online I might be presented with outdated information... or outright MISinformation, with printed text I had no choice what I read, unless I picked up a different book. Online a different 'book' is always an easy option, on any subject. The reader is still subject to opinion on what they want to choose to believe, but the choices are RIGHT THERE and you can easily decide or understand if something it wrong or outdated. It's just better. Once you truly thirst for information then are blessed with ALL information... the limits, they don't exist unless you set them. That's why I got into the Internet and this is where I reside today. I knew instantly when I saw pre-internet bulletin board systems, in the WAY early days. (you had to dial in... and somehow get the phone numbers to dial into these systems... people that know what I'm talking about or did it, you know what I mean... it wasn't easy. It was work to just get in there... let alone get anything useful.) "This speaks to me. This is the future... not in this form... but this is the future." --- Right now... today... In my opinion, we haven't yet even see the tip of the arrow of what is to become. ... not even the microscopic tip. I feel traditional school limits the expansion of knowledge and I think this will soon be realized on a broad scale. I dropped out of high school only a few credits short of finishing, I could have easily finished but I saw an opportunity at the time time and I didn't see a reason to finish. The truth is, they stopped teaching me years earlier. I was learning more in my own time than what traditional school taught me....... and I went to a progressive alternative school that didn't limit learning or teaching to a set curriculum. You could finish high school by 16 if you wanted to. But I wasn't ambitious, I did half time... I hated school but loved to learn. At the time, that situation was the best fit for me. I really have my Mom to thank for letting me leave traditional school for an alternative. I went to school half the time and learned 6+ times a much.... haha, seriously. Maybe I'm an exception... but I tend to think that if most people were given the same opportunity, they would WAY rather learn at their own pace and learn what they want to learn rather than the 'state' curriculum. That was cool but it still pales in comparison to what kids have today. They can know ANYTHING with a simple question. You can teach yourself ANYTHING. Now, if you want to be a surgeon or in the medical field the people that your operating on want you to have proven yourself first. School makes sense for people that want to do that. But there are MANY professions that the people who are doing the hiring, especially in this economy right now, would WAY rather hire someone who has real world experience rather than someone out of college. You get real world experience from being in the real world... not a classroom. You pay your dues by doing...not looking at a blackboard. (maybe just IMO, I don't know...) I just think about about how lucky our kids are. The rate of progressions between generations is insane. Kids are not only smarter than we were... are... They have the tools online to teach them faster. And it's only going to grow... at an exponential rate. Trust me, if you don't realized this now... it will be realized in your lifetime. We're on the dawn of a knowledge revolution. Kids are going to comprehend soon that the collegiate way of learning (in many cases) only drains personal resources. When you have the entire human knowledge at your fingertips the old methods of learning are a really limitation. This is Something I've practiced for... Well... Since I was six. First with the "World Book" my Mom got for our family. I really owe my quest for information to that. The Internet expanded upon that beyond my wildest dreams. Once you thirst for information then are blessed with ALL information... Man. That's why I got into the Internet and this is where I reside today. I know that this has expanded WAY off topic but sometimes I like to just share my thoughts. Okay, check it out.... just imagine growing up in a world where all knowledge is known... At your fingertips. All you have to do is ask. In my opinion that's a true Zen state of reality. Our kids get that! We truly can't understand how that feels. Just like they can't truly understand how it feels to not have that. I'm telling you, we are on the boundary of a new mindset in the world and the only thing that could stop it is lack of electricity. I'm telling you, the dawn of knowledge is upon us. Take heed. Sorry if I got too deep but seriously......... our children are so fortunate to be afforded such an opportunity. I KNOW that they won't waste it. Mark my word! Let me be clear, I'm not at all telling people to drop out of school. If my son reads this, I hope that he stays in school. I hope that anyone that reads this stays in school... as long as you're learning. If you stop learning... then it's time to move on because you're being held back from what I consider Zen... ...which is gaining as much knowledge as you can while you can. Why waste your time if they aren't teaching you?!? ...it's just a personal experience that I can only imagine is more relevant today than ever.