The Car Thread

[tommie gorman]

Yeah I hate those AC boxes getting in the way if they are not to be used.

Is the motor pretty much stock inside?

Looks pretty  much streetable. As an older person, I might have gone one gear ratio towards the gas mileage.

We had a guy in highschool with a 440 cu. in. and a 4.68 gear ratio. No one beat him stoplight to stoplight. Or gas station to gas station. 

And on the highway, even a V.W. Beetle could outrun him. 

[Doomsday]

the motor is just one of those Summit GM Crate Motors {the 260 horse /350 torque one, it had the best cam profile out of all the ones i looked at and the cheapest }.

The gas gauge hasn't worked in years and i never let it go past half a tank which is when it hovers in between F and half tank.

it's stock just with the edelbrock performer manifold,some flowtech headers{they were on sale at the time} and a holley 650cfm 4 bbl.

[tommie gorman]

That shouldn't be too hard on gas, at least by old day standards.

Nice looking setup.

[Doomsday]

thanks. it took alot of work.

It use to look like this:

it took a few days to scrap offf all the oil and paint,clean it up and repaint it with gloss black paint.

The valve covers pictured here are the same ones in the previous pic, i used some of that Nano-Polish and they cleaned up nicely.

[tommie gorman]

Yeah, they are a lot of work. But enjoyable time spent.

I will probably be starting on mine by spring. Yanking out all the big block parts from a 70 429 LTD Brougham and installing them in a 67 Fairlane 2 dr.

That will be a lot of work. The neighbor wanted the old LTD when I was finished til he found out how much I was stripping out. Probably scrap the rest if no one wants it on ebay.

[cholla]

straight pipe exhaust

i pulled out the condensor box today with my dad {that thing in the left corner} 

Hey Doomsday;I'm going to go mechanic on you for a minute.What do you mean by strait exhaust.This can be taken several ways?

Next that thing would be your evaporator box & although that would be the left side of the picture .Thee passenger side of the car is the right side.(that's on an American car like yours).

It Looks like you've got a nice start.btw:What do you consider a good cam profile?

[Doomsday]

Straight Pipe:

Basically just the headers,then onto a thrush pipe,then onto a 2 inch pipe and then routed to the side at a 45 degree angle.

A good cam profile {for me aleast} was .383/.401. i'm really more into torque since the car is so heavy,but just enough not to blow the tranmission up {the turbo 350 i was told can only take about 400 torque}

Actually,i asked my dad about the car.It was made in Canada. the color combine use to be Gold w/ White interior. the car actually belonged to my grandmother's father,then my dad got it and then i got it.

[cholla]

Doomsday ;On the exhaust I would consider adding an H-pipe or crossover pipe whichever term you like.I think you will like the result.This actually helps with a small increase in HP & better tone of the exhust usually.

On the cam thats a pretty good amount of lift but as long as the valves are clearing the pistons probably OK.You didn't post the duration or amount before  or after TDC this cam differs from stock.It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to check into some top quality rocker arms.

On the transmission either they hold up or don't.I pulled a fairly heavy boat several miles & trips to the lake with a Turbo 350 in the 77 El Camino I had at the time.

It's exhaust was illegal but it passed inspection several times.I eliminated the converter.The reason they couldn't tell was I hsed the transmission support out of a older car it had the two little humps for dual exhaust instead of the big one for the convertor.I used turbo reverse flow mufflers.Slightly quiter but still a nice deep tone.

I consider a Canadian made car American even though it does knock some American out of a job.

[Doomsday]

once the motor breaks in, i planned on getting the same rockers that were in the old motor which were Comp Cams Magnum Roller Rockers in 1.52

my dad at one time had a H-Pipe setup{this was when i was about 10 years old i think}and changed it over to the current setup after the H rotted out along with the rest of the system.

[cholla]

Doomsday ;No doubt those are good rockers probably more than a fairly stock street engine needs.They are more subject to wear & need replacement to stay the correct choice.I was thinking more like an improved stock type . Better wear duration for a street car.But that's IMO.

I noticed you like Summit so I checked their cams  & the type timing chain I prefer.I'm putting in the links.If you want to take a look.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CLO-9-3100 I always like one of these

more sure not to jump than a stock chain & if you want it a 4 degree advance .I thought

my cam must have had the correct advance at zero  because that produced the best performance.

But some applications like an advance of 4 degrees.It will also let you retard by 4 degrees

but I doubt you want to do that.It's a full performance high RPM only application to retard the cam.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D1104&N=700+4294924497+4294887637+115&autovie=sku

I kind of liked this cam but I always though something with around a 280 duration performed well.

or this one a little milder.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D1103&N=700+400304+302116+4294908216+4294837912+115&autoview=sku

The reason I brought up the H-pipe is its a free HP gain even if it's a small one. You might also consider wrapping the headers with insulation tape for this.It lowers engine compartment heat  & with the carb drawing in engine compartment air this will give it cooler air.You might eventually want to consider a different air cleaner for this reason.It's best to take in air from outside the engine compartment.

[dlewis23]

any one know what this car is?

[coknuck]

1950 something Imperial

[tommie gorman]

Storm got me last night, but I will try to get up to speed.

The tranny should be fine with the shift kit. They not only give you firmer shifts, they also give you longer tranny life. Since they reduce the slippage which is also what wears out the tranny.

On the H-pipe it equals out the back pressure in the duals creating equal flow. Also reducing actual wear on the engine. (Balancing things out.) Many bonus's on this.

The cam lift should be fine on that engine as it is a crate engine from Summit, and they have built many engines in the past. I don't consider it radical until you pass the .500 lift and are then required to have a vacuum canister (or larger one) just to run items under the hood, distributor, power brakes, downshift on an automatic, etc...

And on aircleaners, chrysler actually had the best functioning factory cleaners. Dual snorkel. 

I almost forgot, my 68 mustang had a .569 lift Crane FIreball which I did run with an auto C-6, so it all depends. Just the factory vacuum cannister. 

[cholla]

I don't think it's an Imperial coknuck.It looks sort of Chrysler but it also looks sort of AMC then again the rear looks kind of t-bird say around 1967.I haven't got it yet.

tommie I bet that cam loped a bit.The lift was not a problem specially since todays cams use less duration.Yeah Dodges dual snorkle or even their ram air .

[dlewis23]

Cholla was thinking right, its a 1963 Chrysler Turbine Car.

[tommie gorman]

cholla it loped a LOT!

I was almost going to say 1964 Dodge Dart for similarities.

[cholla]

The Dart was what got me to thnking Chrysler.I had heard of the turbine car but I have been to some car musuems & I have never actually seen one.I called the Chrysler/AMC/T-Bird pretty close .Read this :

"In 1962, Chrysler put together this "mock-up" of what a turbine powered car would look like. Elwood P. Engle was the new director of design and from what I have been told the actual artist who penned the disign of the Typhoon was Mr. Charles Mashigan. Mr. Engle had only been with Chrysler since November of 1961 and maybe it was his input that made them look so much like the early 60's T-Birds or did Mr. Mashigan imagine the style.

I Know that Charles Mashigan was involved in both the Ghia turbinecar and the Ford Thunderbird design - I also know he went on the be the head of AMC's design department. "

[tommie gorman]

The turbine car was just too fast, so they outlawed it very quickly in stockcar racing. The reason you will see very few, ever. Nothing could even touch them. Everyone literally got lapped several times. And the worst thing was you had no idea what just passed you till you saw the tail lights. They were very quiet. 

My auto mechanics teacher used to work on the pit crew for the Petty Bros. He had some interesting stories.

One I remember was a Plymouth Valiant they tested one day. It was a slant 6 with an experimental carburetor kit on it. He said he left the Big blocks behind for like a lap and 1/2. My teacher was driving and he said all he could do was laugh. (He loved to laugh) His nickname was "Smilig Jack" in the pits. But the rest did then catch up to him, and they pulled him out of the race. But being a pit mech., he said he seldom got to race, so it was a blast. 

[dlewis23]

The turbine car was just too fast, so they outlawed it very quickly in stockcar racing. The reason you will see very few, ever. Nothing could even touch them. Everyone literally got lapped several times. And the worst thing was you had no idea what just passed you till you saw the tail lights. They were very quiet. 

tommie its the other way around, the turbine car was slow, there was a giant lagg from the turbine speeding up. And it never took off because productin costs were too high, thats why only 50 were built.

[cholla]

Heres a couple of links on the turbine cars :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/turbine.html

This started earlier than I thought & went on longer.

I have personall rebuilt a slant 6 for someone else.These are among the heaviest built strait six engines.The crank & rods look like something out of a big block V-8.(I know not enough journals for a V- .Being a Ford man mostly I also like the 300 cid Ford strait 6.

[tommie gorman]

1954

While their 1965 model gathered a lot of publicity and media coverage, Chrysler actually produced their first road-going test vehicle back in 1954. This car was simply a standard 54 Plymouth, pulled off the assembly line and fitted with a specially made turboshaft engine.

An average fuel consumption of 13-14 mpg using regular unleaded gasoline. The article claims that this would likely have improved to 18 mpg if the engine had been running on kerosene.

The hot-section turbines on this prototype vehicle cost $1,500 (1956 dollars!) each to manufacture but Chrysler was planning to reduce the cost to just $10 with mass-production. It seems that target was never met and the vehicle never made it to the assembly line.

Most of the reports published about these cars were very positive; drivers marvelling at the smoothness and ease of operation -- but ultimately it seems that Chrysler wasn't confident enough to commit to large-scale production.

Their fate was sealed in the 1970's when the fuel crisis and stringent emission control standards made it impossible for the gas-turbine engine to compete with rapidly evolving traditional internal combustion designs.

In the last two decades of the 20th century further advances in the area of electronic engine control systems further strengthened the position of the regular reciprocating 4-cycle auto engine against the fuel-hungry turbine.

Chrysler never did find a way to mass-produce the critical hot-section elements of the turbine engine at a reasonable cost either.

So, don't look for any manufacturer to roll-out a gas-turbine powered car for the masses any time soon.

Update: 11 June 2001:

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/chrysler.shtml

Today, it is obvious that the advantages of the gas turbine over the conventional engine are, indeed, real. Some of these advantages are:

Maintenance is considerably reduced

Engine life-expectancy is much longer

Development potential is remarkable

The number of parts is reduced 80%

Tuning-up is almost eliminated

Low-temperature starting difficulties are eliminated

No warm-up period is necessary

Antifreeze is not needed

Instant heat is available in the winter

The engine will not stall with sudden overloading

Engine operation is vibration-free

Operates on wide variety of fuels

Oil consumption is negligible

Engine weight is reduced

Exhaust gases are cool and clean

The 1956 cross-country endurance test In March, 1956, another historic event took place - the first transcontinental journey of an automobile powered by a gas turbine engine .

The turbine car - a four-door 1956 Plymouth sedan, a standard production model - departed from the Chrysler Building in New York City on March 26. On March 30, four days and 3,020 miles later, it completed the cross-country endurance test when it arrived at the City Hall in Los Angeles, California. The purpose of the run was to test the turbine's durability, acceleration, fuel economy, control in traffic, action on steep grades, and operation under various climatic conditions.

Over the entire trip, fuel economy averaged approximately 13 miles per gallon using mostly "white" (unleaded) gasoline and some diesel fuel . The run was interrupted only twice for minor repairs which did not involve the turbine engine (a faulty bearing in the reduction gear and an intake casting were replaced) . The engine itself and its basic components performed very well and without failures of any kind.

The experimental turbine engine was essentially the same as the one tested previously in the 1954 Plymouth. However, it reflected progress in the following major points:

engine friction was greatly reduced

considerable work had been done with plain bearings instead of more expensive types of antifriction bearings;

the combustion system was improved; and

engine controls were developed further, allowing the driver to operate the turbine car just as he would a conventional automobile.

The turbine had not only lived up to all expectations but had exceeded them! An inspection showed every part of the engine in excellent condition. Fuel economy was consistently better than a conventional car which traveled with the turbine car and was exposed to the same conditions. The key to the excellent performance and economy of the third generation gas turbine (called the CR2A) was its new variable turbine nozzle mechanism.

Turbine car instrumentation and controlsThe operation of the Turbine Car is much the same as that of a car with a piston engine and an automatic transmission. To start it, place the transmission shift lever in the "Idle" location and push down to engage the "Park/Start" position. Turn the ignition key to the right and release it. Starting is automatic. Within a few seconds, the inlet temperature and tachometer gauges on the instrument panel will read about 1700 F and 18, 000 rpm, respectively, indicating that the engine is started.

The present performance and economy of the Turbine are comparable to a conventional car with a standard V-8 engine. The engine will operate satisfactorily on diesel fuel, kerosene, unleaded gasoline, JP-4 (jet fuel), and mixtures thereof. And, even more interesting, it is possible to change from one of these fuels to another without any changes or adjustments to the engine. The users of the cars also will appreciate the many other advantages of the turbine engine.

1964 turbine car specifications130 horsepower at 3,600 rpm (output shaft speed); 425 lb-ft of torque at zero rpm! Weight: 410 lb - 25 inches long, 25.5 inches wide, 27.5 inches tall (without accessories, which make the overall length 35 inches).

Fuel requirements: what've you got? diesel, unleaded gas, kerosene, JP-4, others. No adjustments needed to switch from one to the other.

Compressor: centrifugal, single-stage compressor with 4:1 pressure ratio, 80% efficiency, 2.2 lb/sec air flow

First stage turbine: axial, single-stage, 87% efficiency, inlet temperature 1,700 degrees F.

Second-stage turbine: axial, single-stage, 84% efficiency, max speed 45,700 rpm

Regenerator: dual rotating disks, 90% effectiveness, 22 rpm max speed

Burner: single can, reverse flow, 95% efficiency

Maximum gas generator speed: 44,600 rpm

Maximum output speed, after reduction gears: 4,680 rpm

Exhaust temperature at full power: 500 degrees Fahrenheit.

The turbine cars that became the Dodge ChargerA Chrysler employee wrote:

[Roco]

Hi Guys,  the UK's turbine car  1950

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/8/newsid_2516000/2516271.stm

[tommie gorman]

Sounds like our govt's duped both of us again. On both fronts. 

By the  way dlewis, the race model which only saw a few races, was not bound to street configuration. It was astounding, to say the least. They had all the room they needed, since they could build it from scratch. But unfortunately, all I could find on the racing eversion, is my memory from my old teacher. He has long since passed away.

Probably racing from cloud to cloud right now. He loved to take the local Highway Patrol on in his old 1972 440 3/4 ton camper special pick-up. He was a lot of fun in class. He seldom followed the curriculum to a tee. Somedays it just turned into a BS session.    I do miss those days. Yeah, us students did turn out a few "Outlaw cars", according to the principal. He did not like us much. 

And we always charged him full price. 

[cholla]

Roco ;I bet you wouldn't want to buy fuel for it at 5 to7 MPG.But I guess if you could get area restaurants to give you their old cooking oil.You could filter it & a turbine would burn it.  

[Roco]

Roco ;I bet you wouldn't want to buy fuel for it at 5 to7 MPG.But I guess if you could get area restaurants to give you their old cooking oil.You could filter it & a turbine would burn it.  

Yeah, you are right on that 5-7 mpg ,

It would never been a suitable power unit for UK road conditions,  our Traffic flow in the London area  has now fallen below the speed of 18 century horse and coach speeds  9 mph,

it is very rare to drive more than 200 yards without touching the brakes,

I reckon  electric motive power will be here soon enough ,