The "Tea Parties "

[mudmanc4]

Wow, look at us, are we now coming back together as we have so many times when this great country has been in dire need of us ? Yes, we are, once again, we are making history, we are becoming one, again.

It's a great feeling , remember how close we all were on 912 and the shallow weeks to follow ? well, were approaching those times today, but look closer, and pay attention because this is not a feel good drug such as it was on 912, this is a lasting real , true uniting of the masses.

The statement " we the people " is ringing loud as the liberty bell ever has, and the bell is calling, she's calling you, she need you now more then ever, more then anything, or anyone has ever needed anyone. Just as the Earth needs the life blood of the sun, and the oceans bring forth the rains across all nations, we are uniting in something more powerful then anyone could have imagined.

  The fathers of this country have written about what is happening, this is exactly what was told of in our Declreration of Independents, our Constitution of the United States of America.  These men were nothing less then miraculous in there genius.

They knew there would come this day.

We are here. Recognize it, breath it in people .

                IT IS TIME

Time to rise up, and truly stand up for who you are, I know you can feel it, it's sweeping the absolute soul of this great nation, the nation or fathers, and mothers , and great great parents knew as something called there home, they did it for you and me. It's now time to pay the piper, it's time to become what we were meant to be. It's time to put away our differences and relish in what is to be.

The Philadelphia Convention adopted the current United States Constitution on September 17, 1787. 

That is the first thing we need to teach each other, don't stop until everyone you know , knows at least that.

This thread will continue to be  teachings of what , who, and how this country came to be what it is today, an icon, something we can look to for information we need to know what , and who we are, and where we are going.

This is not a political thread, nor will any differences in opinion be discussed, in even the slightest manner.

This thread is nothing more then facts. Nothing. It has nothing to do with the president, now, or in the past, nothing to do w/ your senators or any other representative, no television personality, as wll as radio. And neither will be tolerated, because that is not who, or what we are here for.

So gather fact starting with the beginning , starting from who attended the forming of the constitution, and we'll go from there.

I know I'm sure in need of the history of the founding of this country, and I'm sure we'll find it encapsulating.

Enjoy your tea party thread It's yours.

Here's a short video that should be watched, brings up a couple very good questions. Thanks to shug

[Shug7272]

There were Iraq war protests that got more people in one area than the tea parties gathered nation wide. There was no coverage of them. The tea parties are a joke and I am surprised you of all people were sucked in. Protest is great, but not when its sponsored by a political party or news org. So lets see, Fox covers the tea parties tons. Nationwide, the estimates put the tea party totals to 100k-200k. Not bad.

http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/14/fox-news-sponsors-anti-tax-tea-party-e-mail-collection-drive/

Ok how about Iraq war protests. Hmmm Fox/Mainstream Media doesnt cover them at all. They must have not been that big.

On October 26, protests took place in various cities across the world. Over 100,000 people took part in a protest in Washington. 50,000 people took part in a demonstration in San Francisco. Both protests were called by the ANSWER Coalition.[17]

Oh wait, hell yea they were. They were huge, some of which had 100k at ONE CITY and more. Here is a list of all the war protest nobody got to hear about on the news.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War

I just cant believe you dont see yourself being played when your eyes are open more than most.

Here is a list of the war protest nobody got to see. On the other hand you got to get live daily ongoing coverage of the tea parties. But you know, black dem president and NOW after the last 8 years of shit people say enough.... LMAO Im not buying it.You should follow the link and see what the pictures look like, after you see the Iraq protest pics and compare them to tea party ask yourself which was a bigger movement. Which deserved more coverage.

I agree with what you are saying, but I do not think that is what the tea parties were. We have had MULTIPLE movements with MANY more people involved than this before. Hell just in the last few years we have.

Scope and impact in the United States

A March 2003 Gallup poll conducted during the first few days of the war showed that 5% of the population had protested or made a public opposition against the war compared to 21% who attended a rally or made a public display to support the war. [6] An ABC news poll showed that 2% had attended an anti-war protest and 1% attended a pro-war rally. The protests made 20% more opposed to the war and 7% more supportive. [7] A Fox News poll showed that 63% had an unfavorable view of the protesters, just 23% had a favorable view. [8] According to Pew Research, 40% said in March 2003 that they had heard "too much" from people opposed to the war against 17% who said "too little". [9]

[edit]Prior to the invasion of Iraq

These protests are said to be the biggest global peace protests before a war actually started; the peace movement is compared with the movement caused by the Vietnam War.

[edit]September 2002

On September 12, 2002, U.S. President George W. Bush spoke to the United Nations General Assembly. Outside the United Nations building, 500 to 1,000 people attended a protest organized by Voter March [10]. Speakers included Voter March founder attorney Louis J. Posner, singer songwriter Patti Smith, former Students for a Democratic Society President professor Todd Gitlin, author/professor Mark Crispin Miller, and Democrats.com founder Bob Fertik.

On September 24, Tony Blair released a document describing Britain's case for war in Iraq. Three days later, an anti-war rally in London drew a crowd of at least 150,000[11] and probably around 400,000.[12]

On September 29, roughly 5,000 anti-war protesters converged on Washington, D.C. on the day after an anti-International Monetary Fund protest.[13]

[edit]October 2002

On October 2, the day President Bush signed into law Congress' joint resolution authorizing the war,[14] a small-scale protest was held in Chicago, attended by a crowd of roughly 1,000[15] who listened to speeches by Jesse Jackson and then-Illinois State Senator Barack Obama. Obama's statement, "I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars," was barely noted at the time, but became famous during the 2008 Democratic presidential primaries when the Obama camp used it to demonstrate his courage and good judgment on the war.[16]

On October 26, protests took place in various cities across the world. Over 100,000 people took part in a protest in Washington. 50,000 people took part in a demonstration in San Francisco. Both protests were called by the ANSWER Coalition.[17]

On October 31, around 150 protests took place across the United Kingdom, including Critical Mass bike rides, occupations, and mass demonstrations in Brighton, Manchester, Glasgow and London. Protests also took place in the US.[18]

[edit]November 2002

On November 9, demonstrations were held against the war at the end of the first European Social Forum in Florence, Italy. According to the organizers, 1,000,000 people were in attendance. Local authorities put attendance at 500,000.[citation needed]

On Saturday, November 16, in Canada an anti-war demonstration of about 2,000 people occurred at Queen

[tommie gorman]

So could you summarize that in a few short sentences shug? 

[tdawnaz]

there is a huge difference between a protest or demonstration and a movement

[tommie gorman]

Yeah, a movement is the real thing. Its happening. 

[mudmanc4]

Thanks Gorman, I knew you had it in you.

the genius's that hooked up my VoIP from TWC Killed my internet, all I have is my PPC, and a phone no one uses.

So It stinks on ice.

I'll get to this soon enough.

People, dont b discouraged.

[tommie gorman]

Thanks Gorman, I knew you had it in you.

[mudmanc4]

Now it's time to move on.

The people involved in writing the Declaration of Independents ~John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Robert R. Livingston, and Roger Sherman.

[Shug7272]

So could you summarize that in a few short sentences shug? 

Sure buddy. I think (in my opinion) that America is waking up and noticing what is going on. But the tea parties (IMHO) are a sham. Why did they get such coverage when the other side of the coin got no coverage?

there is a huge difference between a protest or demonstration and a movement

Yup, and a movement is not one day of people standing out side with racist signs in their hands. Now the anti war movement. THAT is a movement. You can look at the list and the number of Americans and know it. So why was that movement not covered? If anyone thinks the MSM will support a REAL movement with coverage they are crazy.... IMO of course.

[tdawnaz]

If anyone thinks the MSM will support a REAL movement with coverage they are crazy.... IMO of course.

this could be the beginning of a REAL movement...and in the beginning no...of course not...it's way too serious...but eventually they will have to as long as the lack of media support doesn't stop the people...just because there is no media support doesn't mean the people aren't being heard...those in office hear...and they're having meeting right now...u can bet on that

Sure buddy. I think (in my opinion) that America is waking up and noticing what is going on. But the tea parties (IMHO) are a sham. Why did they get such coverage when the other side of the coin got no coverage?

there was coverage for some of those...

a sham?? i'm really not sure on that...i think it's a beginning...a place to start and to stand up for ourselves...and as time goes on...who knows...but it has to start somewhere...

[Shug7272]

It was "started" BY the news networks. How is that a movement. Rick Santelli said it on CNBC then Fox started promoting the hell out of it with other news orgs carrying it some. It was started by and encouraged BY the news networks. Like I said, there are plenty of on going movements that are tons bigger than this. You can say they got a little coverage but I remember NO national coverage. This was all day news on April 15th... That doesnt seem odd? For the first time in decades a protest is covered like real news when they have been ignored for years. Cmon.

There was no real talk of "tea parties" until it was said on national tv by Santelli. If the American people are so lazy that they need the news orgs to start their movements for them I dont know what to say. If you can show me this movement before Santelli encouraged it on national tv and then it got plastered ALL over the internet then I will be impressed. CNBC/Santelli started it and Fox helped. No movement. Just bullshit that people bought into.

[tdawnaz]

i think there was a seed of an idea planted by that fella what's his name dr bob basso...i think were the idea of a "tea party" started a sort of modified version...that where i was first thinking about it anyway...and if u call bullshit...ur gonna get a whippin and no eggroll...cuz it's a thought...my thought...not an opinion...that's just when i thought it would be cool if it happened...new age "tea party"

to me it doesn't matter who thought of it or coined it...or publicized it...just good imo...no that IS my opinion...

but ur right other things have happened that should have gotten big media coverage and didn't...that there is fear and politics

[Shug7272]

i think there was a seed of an idea planted by that fella what's his name dr bob basso...i think were the idea of a "tea party" started a sort of modified version...that where i was first thinking about it anyway...and if u call bullshit...ur gonna get a whippin and no eggroll...cuz it's a thought...my thought...not an opinion...that's just when i thought it would be cool if it happened...new age "tea party"

to me it doesn't matter who thought of it or coined it...or publicized it...just good imo...no that IS my opinion...

but ur right other things have happened that should have gotten big media coverage and didn't...that there is fear and politics

I said in my op that I agreed with muds concept. I think its great. I also think people have been used in this case. Like I said a real movement is not started by someone in the media and then encouraged by the media. That is not anywhere close to a grass roots movement. Santelli started this in early Feb  then more and more people talked about it and only after it got tons of coverage did it "blow up". But again, the number of people at the tea party did not come close to other movements. Its not fair to say yours is a movement because you are involved and the others arent. There are other huge movements and protests we hear nothing about. It should strike people as funny that not only was this one covered by the networks it was PROMOTED by the networks. I guess I am the minoritiy on this subject... Well most every subject. Thats ok though.  Bottom line, this is one subject I would honestly LOVE to be wrong about. Time will tell.

The reason I bold the part about Santelli is that it should say alot that these tea parties were started by a rich white guy that is a talking head for a major network. That right there takes grass roots out of it. Maybe astro turf. Grass roots movements cant have big corp sponsors or by definition it is not grass roots.

[tdawnaz]

i do agree with u on that about the grass roots part...

but personally i could care less how it got started as long as it goes somewhere positive

[Shug7272]

I agree with that, I just dont see this going anywhere but to the next election for the Repubs to use to get back in power. Thats what I see this as and nothing more. That will help nobody. The only thing that will is a real movement. That is not what is happening.

You can look at the political threads here (theres a TON) and most of them are just filled with the same couple people going back and fourth and playing politics. Those are the same people (myself included) that posted in this thread. Its just more politics, the same old people playing the same old politics.Once Pixie, Water  and Cok post in here it will look identical to the other political threads, I am not saying that in a bad way, just matter of fact.  Nothing new here at all. People dont get it yet. They are still playing the game and being played by the game. When that changes I will have hope.

There are hundreds of political threads here and I would say at least 80% of the posts are by the same people in ALL of those threads. Just us political junkies.

[water]

K Mudmanc: I

[Shug7272]

See water here is where you screwed up dear. You QUOTED the founding fathers and what they set up. People dont like that. They like to say WHAT the founding fathers would have wanted but they dont like to actually read what they wanted. Just like all of the quotes by the founding fathers warning about banking and saying the people needed arms to stand up to our own government. We twist their words to mean what we want them to mean. If you or I said some of things Jefferson said we would be terrorists!!! Seriously!

[water]

But Shugar Bear, I didn't screw up by quoting the facts of what they said. I didn't even state my opinion of them I really do need to go an edit that post for spelling though. Back later 

[Shug7272]

But Shugar Bea, I didn't screw up by quoting the facts of what they said. I didn't even state my opinion of them I really do need to go an edit that post for spelling though. Back later 

No I mean you screwed up by NOT posting your opinion and only posting fact. That is frowned upon you know. If America were what the founding fathers had set up it would be awesome!

[water]

That's why I think that the Tea Parties are such a good thing. If you go, you have a chance of educating people on what this country was founded UPON and there are a ton of resources to get their thoughts. You can actually find enough references to see what they meant by parts of the Constitution, and how afraid they were that our government could actually become a beast to abuse us. It has happened slowly over the past 100 years, and it's sad. if we were to retake our country under a true form of the Constitution, and get rid of the crap that prior government agendas brought forth: we would be sitting pretty.

[Shug7272]

Your absolutely right. You do know that you are a potential terrorist if you talk about the constitution or teach it.. Right? No, Im serious.  Mad world. Im not saying that nothing good came of the tea parties or that they werent good. Just that they were organized with a purpose in mind by a political few and as far as "grass roots movements" go IMO this wasnt one. 

[water]

Your absolutely right. You do know that you are a potential terrorist if you talk about the constitution or teach it.. Right? No, Im serious.  Mad world. Im not saying that nothing good came of the tea parties or that they werent good. Just that they were organized with a purpose in mind by a political few and as far as "grass roots movements" go IMO this wasnt one. 

Yeah, I heard about that. I also read today that the House has introduced a bill to ban exotic pets. They would have NO imports of pets, between our country from other countries, but get this: you wouldn't be able to buy an indiginous animal of Florida and take it to Iowa where it isn't it's natural habitat.

I don't think the Tea Parties were sold as much as you thought by the media. There were a lot of them being organized for a month or better, and posted all over the web. The media finally picked it up when they got so BIG.

And I am also continuing to talk with people about what our constitution means. We have dumbed down education, we stopped teaching the history of America. We stopped teaching the constitution as it was meant to be taught. We allowed social security and welfare. The Washington elite culture are all made up up people who's jobs revolve around the government because their jobs depend on it (including but not limited to the lobbyists). The bigger the government, the more jobs they have. We also allowed the house and senate seats to become full time jobs. That's not what they were supposed to be. It was supposed to be a part time job. All the founding fathers had other vocations and were farmers as well.

Could you see any of our politicians today doing that? Heck no! John Adams and his wife Abigail were seperated a LOT of their marriage while he worked to make an income, and help build government.

We're too cheap and lazy to be that way today. 

[Shug7272]

Your right there water. I still disagree about the parties but I have made my side known. I dont know what America will look like in 10 years but I am convinced it will be either much better or much worse. Unless humans as a whole surprise me it will be for the worse, but hey you never know.

[water]

Well here is some more for you madmanc: from the rabble rouser Thomas Paine specifically on the fears of government and what could happen:

Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer.

Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776

thoughts from our first President on Foreign Policy:

'Tis our true policy to steer clear of permanent Alliances, with any portion of the foreign world.

George Washington, Farewell Address, September 19, 1796

Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence, (I conjure you to believe me fellow citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government.

George Washington, Farewell Address, September 19, 1796

But if we are to be told by a foreign Power ... what we shall do, and what we shall not do, we have Independence yet to seek, and have contended hitherto for very little.

George Washington, letter to Alexander Hamilton, May 8, 1796

on foreign trade:

Harmony, liberal intercourse with all Nations, are recommended by policy, humanity and interest. But even our Commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand: neither seeking nor granting exclusive favours or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of Commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing with Powers so disposed; in order to give trade a stable course.

George Washington, Farewell Address, September 19, 1796

And again on foreign policy:

My ardent desire is, and my aim has been... to comply strictly with all our engagements foreign and domestic; but to keep the U States free from political connections with every other Country. To see that they may be independent of all, and under the influence of none. In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home.

George Washington, letter to Patrick Henry, October 9, 1775

And not to bring the wrong topic in here, but just to open some eyes, even George believed that people had a right to worship in whatever why they choose.

I have often expressed my sentiments, that every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.

George Washington, letter to the General Committee of the United Baptist Churches in Virginia, May, 1789

It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

George Washington, letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island, August 17, 1790

Looking into the future:

It should be the highest ambition of every American to extend his views beyond himself, and to bear in mind that his conduct will not only affect himself, his country, and his immediate posterity; but that its influence may be co-extensive with the world, and stamp political happiness or misery on ages yet unborn.

George Washington, letter to the Legislature of Pennsylvania, September 5, 1789

It is apparent that our country has gone way afeild of the intent of the founding fathers and we have not kept to even the outline of what they intended to make happen. Their wishes and desires have been overridden by agenda's of the few against the many who were never informed enough of what we were agreeing to or the repercussions of it.

[water]

A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.

Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, February 12, 1779

What did he mean? In my opinion what he meant was as long as we acted with virtue and honor, holding our laws to the highest regard, not giving in when things were hard and carrying the burden for our children: we would be successful as a nation. Once we decided we no longer cared to hold those things in high esteem then we allow any invader, even our own government to take over our lives and tell us how to be moral and what to define virtue by.