OS X Results acting like Qos controls in effect, but not

[mindcue]

I've been trying to figure out what is causing test results to basically act like they are being throttled, when none is being done at the ISP.

 

Background:

 

I have 2 Mac OS X machines.  One is a MacBook Pro, and one is a Hackintosh Desktop.  Both are Snow Leopard.

 

On the MacBook Pro, I get pretty consistent test results within what I'd expect from my 50/5 service via Charter Business.  The "Business" portion is important because they do not limit in amount/speed at all.

 

On the Desktop machine, which is my main machine, I can get good results one time (eg 58/5), but then upon retest directly following the first, the download is clearly and consistently capped, with 7.5Mbps being the most common result.  Upload stays ok.

 

If I wait a short time (couple of minutes), and DON'T browse the web, I will USUALLY get the fast time again.  Sometimes it gets stuck, and I never get a fast result again.

 

If I browse the web (any browser), I always have to wait before a re-test shows a fast speed.

 

Download tests from various hosting companies using 100MB files directly from the browser exhibit identical results.  This seems to point to certain ports or protocols having some form of "Quality of Service" settings enforced somehow.

 

Download tests via FTP exhibit very similar results.  One interesting note with them is that I can have 4 to 8 connections open in FTP all downloading simultaneously at a total that is in line with expectations--even though downloading a single file is limited as in the browser port 80 testing.

 

Flash based speed tests from various sources all show fast/expected results and never exhibit this  pattern or problem

 

I've ruled out the router (ASUS RT-N66U) as the source of the problem by using an older, but reliable Linksys one in its place.

 

I've ruled out cabling by using the exact cables to connect to the laptop to perform tests.

 

If it were the ISP limiting speed, it would be do the same thing on my MacBook.

 

I've done a bunch of tests removing certain programs, and killing processes.  None seems to have any effect.

 

I've booted in "safe" mode which should rule out most 3rd party tools, and the problem exists there as well.  So it would seem to be something that isn't removed by safe-mode or a setting someplace I've been unable to find.

 

Any Mac (Snow Leopard) or Hackintosh experts out there seen anything like this?  Any ideas of what to try next?

 

Thanks!

-Tim

[CA3LE]

Hey Tim, welcome to TestMy.net! Sounds like you have good taste is operating systems.

Is the hackintosh on wifi or ethernet?

 

Flash based speed tests from various sources all show fast/expected results and never exhibit this pattern or problem

 

We hear that a lot around here. As you've noticed, TMN works different than other speed tests available. You obviously have an issue... If you didn't the file downloads wouldn't be exhibiting the same symptoms. You should just stick with the test that helps you troubleshoot best... I think that TestMy.net is the clear choice since others often don't detect MANY issues. With TestMy.net You can confidently test knowing that the results returned will reflect your true speed... Inflated results that only show your maximum speed don't help to solve connection issues. 

 

There is a lot more to those flash tests that make them a bad choice, read Why Do My Results Differ From Speedtest.net / Ookla Speed Tests? to gain a better understanding.

 

Since it's only happening on the desktop computer I would bet that it's something software related.

 

I have actually seen a similar problem in OSX when I was using Snow Leopard.  Actually, it was probably the same exact problem.  I never resolved it.  It happened too intermittently for me to nail it down.  Intermittent issues can be very difficult to troubleshoot sometimes.  My problem was only resolved when I upgraded to Lion.  After that, totally resolved.  Never happens anymore.  My Macbook and the Mac mini on Snow Leopard didn't have the issue like my iMac did.  ...so I chalk it up to a driver software glitch maybe.  It drove me nuts, every time I tried to attack the problem... it stopped doing it.  I would bust out a 50 Mbps TestMy.net download test result, re-test and get around 8Mbps... it always would seem to lock in around 7.5-8Mbps.  Then it would clear up and I'd start getting perfect results again, with a nice smooth progress bar.  I test on my mini or macbook at the same time I'd get 40-50 Mbps while the iMac was getting 8Mbps.  Drove me insane and I never figured it out, so I'd love for you to figure it out.  

 

If you upgrade to Lion I can pretty much guarentee you that it will resolve the issue, it did for me.  Instantly, after I rebooted the first thing I wanted to know is if it resolved that.  I never saw the issue again... it also seemed to come out of the blue, I'm pretty sure I was running Snow Leopard for a long time with no issues before it just started happening one day.

 

... I did have a sneaking suspicion that a program called little snitch may have had something to do with it.  Do you run that?  

[TriRan]

Definitely sounds like a driver issue to me since your using hackintosh you should be able to find a different driver for your nic or at least a different version! I'd definitely give that a shot

[mudmanc4]

I'll have to agree the card might be puking out or having some packet collision errors. Using wireshark  might be a viable source for the info your looking for.

[CA3LE]

Definitely sounds like a driver issue to me since your using hackintosh you should be able to find a different driver for your nic or at least a different version! I'd definitely give that a shot

 

 

I'll have to agree the card might be puking out or having some packet collision errors. Using wireshark  might be a viable source for the info your looking for.

 

Then why would mine magically get better all of a sudden.  Mine happened on an iMac, so it's not like we're talking about questionable drivers.  ... the drivers could still be at fault but I don't think it has anything to do with being a hackintosh.  He has the exact symptoms I had.  ... I never figured it out because it resolved when I upgraded to Lion.  The reconfiguring process of that install must have cleared whatever was causing it.  Because if it was a driver or software bug Apple would release an update... they'd know about that by now.

 

All I know is that there is a common denominator between his computer and mine because I had that exact issue.

[mindcue]

Wow!  First off, thanks for everyone's input.  It's very much appreciated!

 

Right now I'm cloning my main boot drive, and then will feel more comfortable experimenting with drivers and such.  Been meaning to do this recently anyhow.  Right now there's a "Supplemental Update" and a "Security Update" pending from Apple which I've been too tired to deal with installing--my one dislike of the whole Hackintosh scene is dealing with updates and making sure they don't break anything!

 

So, that's one place that *might* fix something somehow.

 

I will also then test another network driver per your suggestions.  I already updated to the latest Lnx2Mac Realtek RTL81xx Driver with no effect.

 

CA3LE:

• Desktop Hackintosh is Wired only.  Laptop was tested both Wired and Wireless which both work fine.  At one point during testing, I thought I had a similar issue on the Laptop briefly, but it didn't reoccur so it may have been a fluke.  Seeing your comment about yours being on official Apple product is interesting, and I wonder if someplace between my fluke and yours coming out of the blue is the answer.  What was the last 10.6.x release you were on (maybe a timeframe).  Wondering if your trouble started at one of the later releases and maybe you didn't do the final supplemental releases like myself?  The last 10.6.8 Supplemental Update came out after Lion I believe, but I could be mistaken.
• I dislike anything having to do with Flash, and I appreciate your efforts to provide/support real-world tests. Thanks!
• It's somewhat comforting that you experienced seemingly identical problem under SnowLeopard Hackintosh setup.  Wish others have posted someplace with a fix.  I haven't been able to find anything similar in my searches.  Curious what board you use/used?  I'm on a Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R. Started this post without seeing your last entry somehow.  Definitely seems to be a clue that you had the problem on real mac, per above.
• Have you updated to Mountain Lion?  Thinking if I'm going to update, it would be there--I know I need to do something soon since a lot of interesting new software is Lion+ only.  Of course it sounds like the existing 10.8.2 release is pretty buggy, and it could be wise to wait for 10.8.3 to be released and shaken out by TonyMacx86 or others.
• The problem exists even on "Safe Mode" boot which seems to eliminate a lot of things like Little Snitch (I do have), 1Password, and most any other apps/drivers that are add-ons.  The one difference in SafeMode is that it seems to correct itself a little quicker, especially when nothing else is loaded but the browser.

 

TriRan: I will experiment with other drivers once I've got a safe booting clone  Thanks

 

Mudmanc4: Tried WireShark this evening, but it won't run currently due to some sort of driver mismatch.  The supplemental update might take care of this.  Seems this is an old and ongoing issue: http://ask.wireshark.org/questions/4528/wireshark-does-not-run-on-osx-1064  (even though I'm on 10.6.8, and this thread started at the 10.6.4 version)...  After about an hour, I decided to save my time/energy for the other tess and updates before going back to this.  Thanks for the tip though!  Looks like an interesting and useful program.

 

If anyone has any other thoughts for things to try, I'd love to hear them.  Right now the plan is to do do the supplemental update and experiment with different drivers.  Drivers sound less likely after hearing Ca3le's note about being on real Mac. 

 

Didn't think it too relevant, but on second consideration it might be...  In dusting off an XP machine or two, they have consistently slow testmy.net speeds.  I just chalked it up to them being old/slow machines..  Any browser download tests come in fairly consistently in the 5 to 9.5mbps range depending on the machine.  The flash tests all show reasonable speeds, and I've not done any FTP tests--which thinking about it, could be useful I suppose.  Because these tests are all consistent, and the newer OS X machines have much better testmy.net results I figured I'd stick to them.

 

Thanks again for your feedback and help.  I really do appreciate it!

-Tim

[mudmanc4]

Myself not using hackintosh -- yet... I'm curious how it handles the X11 system , which wireshark lives on.

 

Ca3le I only suggest what I did due to him using the system he is. I had a lot of issues with connectivity between windows and shares with 10.6 , compile this with the hackintosh possible issues.

[Pgoodwin1]

I ran Snow Leopard 10.6.8 until early in 2012 on my mid-2010 iMac and never experienced that problem. However, my ISP plan at Time Warner Cincinnati at that time only had 10 Mbps up and 1 Mbps down, and I typically got around 8 Mbps. I was running it wired ethernet. I don't know what the update history was after early 2012 for Snow Leopard and whether yours is more or less up to date than mine was at the time. With my slower service, I don't know if I would have ever seen the kind of slowdown you're experiencing. But at my typical speeds I didn't ever see slow speeds when re-testing right away.

My wife's 2006 MacBook Pro is running 10.6.8 but wireless through an AirPort Extreme Base Station. I've never seen the problem you're describing on hers. Curiously, that old MBP consistently measures the fastest speeds of any machine in the house, including my 2010 iMac (wired gigabit ethernet), and her 2 year old Dell work laptop (thru same Airport Rxtreme).

[Pgoodwin1]

The only issue with that model MBP was the thermal design. Once the heat sink grease dries out a little it separates the processor from the frame/heat sink. And you have to completely disassemble the thing to get underneath inside to repair it. I haven't yet done that and re heat sink greased it. I just cleaned it, tightened all the screws and put a fan controller in it.

When it has heavy continuous processing, you can watch the CPU temperature rise. I put a fan speed control app in it and boosted the idle fan speed to 3000 rpm at 120 deg F and set the max fan speed to reach max rpm at a lower temperature Thatbthe stock settings. If it runs continuously (like a long backup) it really gets hot and the fans at 6000 rpm are whooshing pretty good. Running a 25 MB download test file 5 times in a row actually raises the temperature about 40 deg F and the fans crank up to about 5000 rpm. Without the fan and temperature control it couldn't make it through the initial Time Machine backup of a new 500 GB hard drive. With it, it barely made it through. It does OK with the smaller incremental backups.

[mindcue]

I know it's been a while, so here's the followup:

 

After trying pretty much everything...  New drivers, cloned drive and drastic experiments, etc...  NOTHING helped to fix this problem under Snow Leopard.  I did see that my Macbook Pro that usually had good test results would do the same thing briefly--So it would show fast, then slow if I *immediately* retested, but even then it sped up a little bit partway through the test.

 

So, I bit the bullet and upgraded the MacBook Pro to Mountain lion, and that went relatively smoothly.  The problem seemed to be fully gone (not that it was very prevalent nor noticeable on that machine). 

 

After a day and a half of sorting the update from Snow Leopard to Mountain Lion 10.8.3 (released just last week) on the Hackintosh, I finally have the system running pretty well.

 

Drum roll...

 

YES!  It appears that the problem is a thing of the past.  I now get consistently faster downloads 40Mbps to 60Mbps via tests here.  I can browse, and test, and test multiple times in a row and all works fine.  I do notice things begin zippier in regular browsing as well.

 

So, the bottom line is that if you are on Snow Leopard and are having issues with download speeds, your best option may be to upgrade to Lion/Mountain Loin.  I really did do about everything I could think of to make this work in SL, or I wouldn't have done the update.

 

Hope this helps someone not waste all the time on trying to get it working.

 

THANKS TO ALL WHO SHOWED AN INTEREST AND HAD IDEAS TO SHARE!  I doubt I would have done the ML install without hearing that Lion solved it elsewhere.

 

-Tim

 

PS. Re: wireshark... I haven't gotten it running on ML yet since there wasn't a need.  Apple support site points to xQuartz for X11 installation.  I did that, and didn't get any more messages when starting Wireshark, but it also didn't do anything but sit there in the lower app bar.

[CA3LE]

Drum roll...

 

YES!  It appears that the problem is a thing of the past.  I now get consistently faster downloads 40Mbps to 60Mbps via tests here.  I can browse, and test, and test multiple times in a row and all works fine.  I do notice things begin zippier in regular browsing as well.

 

Great to hear!  See, I told you... I had the same issue.  But it wasn't always like that with Snow Leopard.  Who knows what the true cause is... it's an easy fix and really... you should run Lion if you can anyways.  It's a great version of OSX in my opinion.  I truly tax the hell out of my machines and it's totally stable and handles everything I throw at it.  All I know is that I'm glad that I hopped on Apple's ship a long time ago (once they went Intel I knew my future was with Mac)... there is no way I could develop as fast as I do without my Macs. No BS... it does what I tell it to, just like Linux... because it pretty much is a flavor of Linux.  

 

MS needs to get with the program, otherwise it's only a matter of time before they lose majority.  Right now, as it stands, I think if everyone on PC were to use OSX for 30 days,

(especially windows 8 users that migrated from windows 7)... Microsoft's stock price would drop down to what it was in 1992.      lol, seriously... 30 days and 90% of them would convert forever.

[mudmanc4]

Excellent -- now, guy's convince me to grab 10.8 , as this one is still running 10.7.5

 

Why would I , or why would I not. What are the changes i would benefit from ( aside the I love apple just update the OS because )

 

Only thing i dread is I do not do the auto upgrades , ever. I'll burn the dmg that's downloaded and re- install from scratch -- uhhg with all the data on the 500 GB drive now.

 

[mindcue]

Hey Mudmanc4,

 

Heck, I'd still be on 10.6.8 if this Internet speed thing didn't come up--as well as more and more software requiring newer versions.

 

I don't know enough about 10.8.3 yet to say how I feel.  I did need to go and change some default settings, and reinstall some programs, but I did an update over SnowLeopard.  Of course, I did that on a bootable clone of the original drive.  I don't think I'll ever update without doing that first.  Even on my Macbook Pro I cloned the internal to an external usb drive and tested that I could boot from it before continuing.  Would be a great opportunity to upgrade your 500 to a 1TB at the same time .  Carbon Copy Cloner is one of the better programs for the job--the older free version is fine, or the newer one has a 30 day trial I think.

 

CA3LE seems fine with Lion, so there's probably no real reason to spend time/$ messing with an update to ML if you are already on Lion.  Coming from 10.6.8, it made more sense to me to hop on Mountain Lion to be fully up to date again, so I waited til that 10.8.3 release last week an pulled the trigger.

 

If you start looking into the hackintosh thing, let me know if I can try and help--I'm a newbie, but it's fresh in my mind right this moment and I've done a *lot* of experimentation and reading in the past 2 days trying to get it up and running stable again.

 

Take it easy!

[CA3LE]

Excellent -- now, guy's convince me to grab 10.8 , as this one is still running 10.7.5

 

Why would I , or why would I not. What are the changes i would benefit from ( aside the I love apple just update the OS because )

 

Only thing i dread is I do not do the auto upgrades , ever. I'll burn the dmg that's downloaded and re- install from scratch -- uhhg with all the data on the 500 GB drive now.

 

hat-5g.png

In my experience it's not nessisary to reinstall. I've upgraded without reinstall since 2009 without a single issue. Windows is a different story but OSX upgrades very cleanly. Save yourself a headache and just update it bro.

Some software only works with Lion+ so that's a good reason in itself.

[mudmanc4]

Reasons I still run a 35+ pass DoD on the drive, is I've played around enough to see performance gains from a clean disk, that and I truly tear up my disks, writing overwriting deleting moving and filling them up until they start whimpering.

 

Yes this causes me issues for a while, accessing the files on storage servers locally instead of cmd+space /type the file name - that alone always borks me up for a while. That and my disks are always jam packed , no way to even download let alone install in this manner.

 

Adding a 1TB drive unless it was an SSD would turn into a nightmare for me. Running a 2.4 Ghz 4 GB 256 GB vram machine , with a SATA drive is tough enough, while daily using photoshop, transmit, a couple browsers , Coda2 + just about maxes out the memory and disk seek time with the 500 GB drive even at 7200 rpm w/ 8 MB cache after a few hours. No chance of getting an SSD even close to comparable at this point.

 

Honestly I've been wanting to take a machine here and turn it into a crackintosh , but it's an AMD and afaiu it's a total pia, although I'm not beyond jumping in their. Hell I've given appl plenty of denero over the years and posses their OS disks from PPC to now.

[TriRan]

Reasons I still run a 35+ pass DoD on the drive, is I've played around enough to see performance gains from a clean disk, that and I truly tear up my disks, writing overwriting deleting moving and filling them up until they start whimpering.

 

Yes this causes me issues for a while, accessing the files on storage servers locally instead of cmd+space /type the file name - that alone always borks me up for a while. That and my disks are always jam packed , no way to even download let alone install in this manner.

 

Adding a 1TB drive unless it was an SSD would turn into a nightmare for me. Running a 2.4 Ghz 4 GB 256 GB vram machine , with a SATA drive is tough enough, while daily using photoshop, transmit, a couple browsers , Coda2 + just about maxes out the memory and disk seek time with the 500 GB drive even at 7200 rpm w/ 8 MB cache after a few hours. No chance of getting an SSD even close to comparable at this point.

 

Honestly I've been wanting to take a machine here and turn it into a crackintosh , but it's an AMD and afaiu it's a total pia, although I'm not beyond jumping in their. Hell I've given appl plenty of denero over the years and posses their OS disks from PPC to now.

 

hackintosh is fun to mess around with, i've done it a few times on an AMD x2 machine i hadn't yet tried it on any Phenom machine but back when i used it you couldn't use photoshop because it was an intel only program i'm not sure if things like this have gotten better for the AMD world or not because i haven't tried running osx in about 3 or 4 years

 

as for the HDD thing the cache's are actually A LOT bigger now you can get HDD's with 32 or even 64MB caches now

 

the only downfall is i imagine your stuck on SATA 3.0Gb/s any HDD will feel much snappier using SATA 6.0Gb/s 

 

the difference was astronomical when i upgraded my motherboard using an SSD going from SATA 2 to SATA 3 was rediculous

[mudmanc4]

Ya, this is the drive. >here<  Had to look it up by model number, 16 MB cache - duh me The thing is maybe a year old or so. From what I see the system is reporting 1.5 GB link, on the controller.

 

I moved most everything last night -- has room now

 

AAR the AMD machine is an old Phenom II X4 945 plugged up to a A780GMH/128M asrock , running

dmidecode --type 0

Reports bios version 1.2

 

 

I derailed the piss out of your thread mindcue, sorry man I've never broken the habit

 

[TriRan]

That AMD chip really isn't slow although it is old! It's still one of the fastest chips AMD has on the market my dad runs that one I run the 955 c3 and my brother the 965

[mudmanc4]

Yes the proc is from 2009, nope not slow I agree.

 

I did find a few places that were discussing the latest in AMD crackintosh installs, just not taken the time to do my homework on it.

 

Mindcue if you find anything solid in your endeavors linking me would be greatly appreciated

[TriRan]

Yes the proc is from 2009, nope not slow I agree.

 

I did find a few places that were discussing the latest in AMD crackintosh installs, just not taken the time to do my homework on it.

 

Mindcue if you find anything solid in your endeavors linking me would be greatly appreciated

i may take some time this weekend and try to get an install going ill keep you updated

[mindcue]

It seems the AMD builds aren't done at the site I have basically followed to do my setup, http://www.tonymacx86.com.

 

I have no idea how other hack sites handle things.  Probably similarly.

 

The main things you'll probably run into are video driver issues, and also audio.  Plus the AMD cpu of course.

 

Do you have a macbook, or other Mac system available?  It dramatically eases the process if you do since some of the legwork can be done there.  In fact, if I remember correctly you might need to get a Snow Leopard install working at some point prior to upgrading the system to Mountain Lion if you don't have another Mac with SL available.

 

In the end, when you have a nice stable system you'll be really happy!  I was surprised that ML just feels zippier overall, and so far I can deal with some of the changes from SL without pulling out my hair.  It's great to be able to run some newer software like the latest release of Kaleidoscope, etc...

 

Hope it goes well!

[mudmanc4]

Ya, been running MBP since late 2007, before that was iBook G3 PPC - 

 

I've been playing - almost had it, used nawcoms and snow leopard, went quite the way into installation and halted on four CPU errors I neglected to note. 

 

Funny, mac is aware I'm cheat in on her, woke up this morning to a bad fan in the MBP lol

 

I cannot seem to get much out of using ata drives, the board has one IED socket I chained the DVD + the HDD to, aside that any ata drive kernel panics. Tried flag after flag, set AHCI in BIOS. 

 

Grabbed a sata 2.3 HDD grafted into a USB enclosure and did the one click install through disk utility, which is what I booted from now. I'll have a go at this on the AMD here in a bit. See what I can break  

[TriRan]

Back when I installed I used ideneb to get it running it's a debian based for a lot of the drivers

[mudmanc4]

So far no love, I suppose I'll need to get a bit deeper into it. The AMD thing is a real pia. 

 

Gonna take an intel proc / board and see what can be done. 

[mudmanc4]

iDeneb with sse2 fix installed flawless. Using it here now.

 

I'll play a bit , although I'm used to osx , I'll be looking to get this AMD up, and at the least a newer version.