P A T R I O T I S M

[water]

tommie/water...i know...that's just the treehugger me talkin fantasy world stuff...it all just shouldn't be in the first place...all over what??...like all wars...why can't we all just live and let live...

thx for the tune joeblow and welcome to the forum...hope u enjoy us here...we have some very patriotic folks in here...heros even and i salute them all ...u see i really am very patriotic myself...i was raised that way...and all wars i've opposed weren't opposing our fight to maintain all that we have here...it was to oppose the inhumanity to man...now see what u guys have gone and done...i started this day all mushy and now i'm boo hooie again...

support our boys...help them finish the job they're there to do and pray for their safe return

No - it's not because you're a tree hugger, you're frustrated, we're all frustrated, but at the end of the day, we have only truth justice and our own honor on our side.

If we Wait when it gets hard, all of those things are negated. Gone. No matter how much good we tried to do, by leaving before its over, we fail, and we fail ENTIRELY.

Maybe it's the bulldog in me, but I cannot tolerate failure, or losing without following through and finishing what needs to be done. We committed, we need to fulfill that commitment, for ourselves, our children, our grandchildren, neighbors, friends AND enemies. If we can stop it, we should stop it, because no one else will and we have the ability.

When one of our members re-joined the military, he did it for a reason, a love for all of us. We must respect it and honor it, or we disgrace him and his ideals.

(No, I don't mean that in a grand way people, don't get all "podium" on me.)

*hugs tdawnaz*

[Roco]

on this...the 5th anniversary of the bombing that started this whole mess and our involvement...is there anyone that doesn't think that this has gone far enough and that it's time to bring our boys home??

http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/no_bravery.swf

done...why can't we just get the hell outta there...and stop the fighting??

tommie/water...i know...that's just the treehugger me talkin fantasy world stuff...it all just shouldn't be in the first place...all over what??...like all wars...why can't we all just live and let live...

There ain't nothing wrong with those sentiments Tdawnaz , WAR, tell me what is it good for, absolutely nothing , springs to mind,

this isn't a religious war, it is a war on, I  want ,

I want your lifestyle , your oil, your land,your food,  your  power , History never changes

My father  fought the war to end all wars , so he was told , he survived , but a lot of my class mates at school  lost their Dads , and G.B. was a bleak place for many years after ,

we lost 67000 women and children , Russia lost 10,700,000 women and children ,

So I guess we are a bit antiwar in the UK , but if anyone kicks us in the crutch , we will still fight back , maybe with a little help from our friends across the pond, thanks   (especially for the desert boots , I was told to add that by a Mil.friend, , he said Tstillery would know   )  

9/11 changed my life, and I guess many other peoples, I was working for a charity that housed the elderly, one of the residents called me to her flat, and said look at that, the first plane had struck , I said it is a trailer to a film , then the 2nd struck, I left and went back to the maintenance centre and turned on the TV , I think the word stunned sums it up , in burst my boss and said WTF are you doing , I said watching the world change, so F**k off, He did, I just wanted to be alone ,  

for me it was the sadest day I have ever lived through, maybe not having religion made it worse, yeah I am a Pagan, but can still cry at the suffering of the world and it's people ,

  Roco  UK

P.S if you are wondering where I stand look at  my avatar

     

[tommie gorman]

Yeah Ryan314, that is probably the saddest, grossest story I have heard in a long time. And your right, it would not have taken much.

We should always support and love folks, that is until they treat us knowingly wrong.

I was in shock that they actually said it in the first place. Sort of made me feel like they at least deserved a nightmare about it at least. But that is how it goes sometimes.

Sorry so long again, I knew a few Vietnam vets, and always respected them even when others did not. They always were and always will be hero's in my book. Even though several have passed from the Agent Orange cancer. Hate to see them live such short lives.  

[tommie gorman]

So Roco, you in no way think it could possibly be a war on terror then?

I believe we have done a great deal to slow down the Taliban. They are still fighting, but with a lot less than they originally had. And they no longer own Afganistan, and they have to hide in caves like the Rats they are now. 

I don't know if it is just want, although I am sure it is in there somewhere. 

[Roco]

So Roco, you in no way think it could possibly be a war on terror then?

I believe we have done a great deal to slow down the Taliban. They are still fighting, but with a lot less than they originally had. And they no longer own Afganistan, and they have to hide in caves like the Rats they are now. 

I don't know if it is just want, although I am sure it is in there somewhere. 

Hi Tommie, Terror has no ultimate pay off, it's  only a tactic to achive a higher gain,

[Guest philp]

You will never stop the way the people over there who hate us think. It is handed down to their children and now we have a generation of people who hate the US because they were told to by their elders. They really have no other reason. So it will not stop unless the children who haven't yet learned hatred as a way of life are removed from that setting and the rest of the people are sterilized so they can not have more children that they will raise to hate.

Yeah that's extreme and no I'm not saying we should do it. But I also don't think there's a teenager in the Middle East that hates the US who has the first f*#king clue why other than they are supposed to because they are taught to.

This is only my opinion. That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee at IHOP.

[Roco]

You will never stop the way the people over there who hate us think. It is handed down to their children and now we have a generation of people who hate the US because they were told to by their elders. They really have no other reason. So it will not stop unless the children who haven't yet learned hatred as a way of life are removed from that setting and the rest of the people are sterilized so they can not have more children that they will raise to hate.

Yeah that's extreme and no I'm not saying we should do it. But I also don't think there's a teenager in the Middle East that hates the US who has the first f*#king clue why other than they are supposed to because they are taught to.

This is only my opinion. That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee at IHOP.

Hi philp, you are so right on that, in the UK we have  the same problem with the IRA , the only answer IMHO is to negotiate, I have sympathy with them  by my decent , but not their tactics , killing children only brings lifetime and beyond hate , 

hey, whats IHOP ,

[tdawnaz]

 

hey, whats IHOP ,

[Roco]

that's the "international house of pancakes"...but sounds like it's not as international as they claim...grrrr...more fricken lies ...jk

LOL , you are right  there , or maybe I lead a sheltered life

who said, lies and more dammed lies ? don't ask me for the answer , coz I duno,

but it rings very distant bells in me poor old brain

[cholla]

I am not sure what you mean by disarmed cholla.

tommie;I didn't mean Americans were already disarmed.I'm not either.I mean for the USA to join the "One Government World"I see coming  They want Americans disarmed.I think this is part of our governments agenda as well as the European Unions.I just meant watch & see.& I will be shoting the ones that come for my guns so I guess I will be dead after that.It will be the rests wory.

IF you really believe in the Second Amendment then you have to beleive an American citizen should have the right to be armed any place any time.We have laws to deal with the ones that abuse their right & turn criminal.That's part of being an American & part of the "Home of the Brave" Were not afraid of being  shot as much because everyone should be armed.It's no different to die here because everyone is allowed to have the freedom & some abuse it than to go somewhere else to protect others freedom.In fact it's even more important here.So I'm for 100% of law abiding citizens being armed.

[Guest philp]

hey, whats IHOP ,

[Guest philp]

IF you really believe in the Second Amendment then you have to beleive an American citizen should have the right to be armed any place any time.We have laws to deal with the ones that abuse their right & turn criminal.That's part of being an American & part of the "Home of the Brave" Were not afraid of being  shot as much because everyone should be armed.It's no different to die here because everyone is allowed to have the freedom & some abuse it than to go somewhere else to protect others freedom.In fact it's even more important here.So I'm for 100% of law abiding citizens being armed.

[move]           [/move]

[Roco]

tommie;I didn't mean Americans were already disarmed.I'm not either.I mean for the USA to join the "One Government World"I see coming  They want Americans disarmed.I think this is part of our governments agenda as well as the European Unions.I just meant watch & see.& I will be shoting the ones that come for my guns so I guess I will be dead after that.It will be the rests wory.

IF you really believe in the Second Amendment then you have to beleive an American citizen should have the right to be armed any place any time.We have laws to deal with the ones that abuse their right & turn criminal.That's part of being an American & part of the "Home of the Brave" Were not afraid of being  shot as much because everyone should be armed.It's no different to die here because everyone is allowed to have the freedom & some abuse it than to go somewhere else to protect others freedom.In fact it's even more important here.So I'm for 100% of law abiding citizens being armed.

Hi cholla ,

How do you define law abiding , we had gun clubs fully legit , and yeah, I have my marksman cert.cal 303,  but 2 members ran amok and killed many kids, so now if I get shot , it will be by our police or some hood, not some drunk neibour, 

I think IMHO opinion America's mistake was was to to override ! it's policy in not entering in to continental wars , sorry if I have got that wrong, as you know no insult is ever intended , and I do realize if you had taken that route I would be speaking  German, ,

on that point you would be surprised how many UK citizens think that it maybe not such a bad thing ,

[Roco]

Here ya go, Roco: http://www.ihop.com/

Really good coffee at the one I frequent.

Maybe the "international" part only applies to the names of some of their menu items, tdawnaz.

thanks philp, I am looking into the franchise deal , it's that good huh ?

Mind you we have got Mc.Donalds and only 500 yards from my door  as near to Hampton Court Palace as they dared, ( 1 mile from me , house prices rise by the yard around here  ) yeah, I am only 500 yards from being rich  I wish

[tommie gorman]

They would have to remove my gun also cholla. I only own a shotgun at the moment. They are less traceable, ( ) and less apt to just pull it out and shoot. 

Roco the IHOP is not a McDonalds type resteraunt. It is more of a sit down and enjoy your meal type. Much better, but less convenient. 

[cholla]

Hi cholla ,

How do you define law abiding

Roco ;I didn't say law abiding that leaves too much room to take away someones guns.The guy wit a couple of traffic tickets or a parakeet that disturbs the neighbors late at night so he's guilty of disturbing the peace should be able to keep his guns.

We have laws to deal with the ones that abuse their right & turn criminal.

I said the above I guess I should have put abuse their right to bear arms.For the two guys that went crazy & killed the children prosecute them for their crime .Don't punish everyone else for it too.Point is even if they had been members of your gun club & you had been where they killed the children& were also armed .How many children would they have killed before you started shooting them? I'm betting not many.So if their were some people armed where this happened I think the number of children killed would have been less.Maybe none because know others would probably be armed & stop them they might have thought twice before going on their killing spree.

I don't like to go into conspiracy theory but did you ever think they could have been government plants ?Some children were expendable so the government laws on guns could be made stricter with less objection.

It is different here because of the Constitution but England sure has no problem with their citizens being armed when Germans were attacking them.& would not again if they were being attacked.Either it's not on their agenda which is what I think or they fail to see that a major portion of citizens being armed would stop a lot of the terrorism & other crimes.Of course ocassionally someone would be killed that wouldn't of if they took all the guns.But the same could be said about a lot more that are killed by cars, planes ,trains,& even pets.I don't see them stopping these just because they kill.So why pick on guns.

[tdawnaz]

Maybe the "international" part only applies to the names of some of their menu items, tdawnaz. 

actually philp when i was a kid...the placemat under ur plate was a world map...showing where all the ihop's were...of course it was actually called international house of pancakes, cuz they hadn't shortened it yet......their slogan is "come hungry, leave happy"

Roco ;I didn't say law abiding that leaves too much room to take away someones guns.

yes u did cholla...that's exactly what u said ..."100% of law abiding citizens"

So I'm for 100% of law abiding citizens being armed.

[Roco]

Hi Cholla ,I think we have a basic difference in view here, and I am sure we are both right  for us in the UK, probably smaller than Texas ?, with a population of 60 million,

social pressures are high, you cant have a row with your neihbour, and just drive into the outback and let of a few rounds at a can,  mainly because  if you found this outback the car park would be full,

During ww1 &2 civilins in the UK were not armed , even our home guard mainly had pitch forks , the lucky few a shotgun ,

the two maniac gunmen were gun club members , one used a AK47 , we didn't have to prosecute , as they both died , I cant see giving the teacher a hand gun would have made any difference, School security has been stepped up since then, and has been added to my tax bill,     

Government complicity , I don't see the reason for that, we were allready a gun free society , but you may well be right on some counts, just look at the Princes Diana affair.to many coincidences in that case, as the Queen said there are dark forces afoot .

thanks Tdawnaz , I nearly kicked my guide dog over that  (law abiding )

IHOP, sounds good , Mc.Donald's , nobody over 25 goes in them in the UK 

as it is compulsory to have zits to get in , or work there 

We have a explosion of French style pavement restaurants springing up all over the place,

very nice to eat on the pavement with heavy goods vehicles passing  a few feet away ,

the one I had a coffee at, was next to the bus stop, so every 10 minuets , a queue  would surround the table , and a bloody big smoking London bus would pull up, I am more the picnic in the park sort 

Regards all        Roco  UK

[cholla]

tdawnaz;Ok I did say" So I'm for 100% of law abiding citizens being armed" but not in the qupye Roco put in his post.I quess I needed to add more to each.On this one I agree with that but since some would want to use a j-walking ticket to call an American citizen not law abidding. I would need to limit those restricted in their "Right to bear arms "to major violent crimes.In other words even those that don't have the right any more that were in prison for white collar crimes like Martha Stewart could again bear arms.Right now most like Martha can't legally any way.

Same as I needed to add to the other post "abuse their right to bear arms " instead of just "right".

Roco:

Texas population in 2000 was  20,851,820

Texas Area: 268601 sq.mi

The United Kingdom is a small nation in physical size. At 244,110 sq km (94,251 sq mi),

Your population estimate was about correct. so Texas is some larger & about 1/3 the population of the United Kingdom.

I thought more of the citizens would have been armed in the WW 1 & 2.I guess plenty of the military was & wasn't about every male that was breathing in the military or just about?

Probably like here in the places to shoot too much land in private hands.So plent of good hunting & shooting area you just can't use it.We are lucky I can go about 35 miles to a public hunting area .& there are 3 local shooting ranges.Probably some private & law enforcement ones too.

On the teacher being able to stop the killing .Well if the teacher was a dead on shot & saw the men with guns come in then shoot first & ask questions later.If they were killed before they got off the first shot the no children would have been killed.Just because I feel in America people have the right to carry a gun anywhere any time any place it doesn't mean they can't be security checked first.But if they come up with a clean record & want to sit in the court room armed to the teeth then I don't have a problem with that.Might even assure better justice.

[Guest philp]

actually philp when i was a kid...the placemat under ur plate was a world map...showing where all the ihop's were...of course it was actually called international house of pancakes, cuz they hadn't shortened it yet......their slogan is "come hungry, leave happy"

I remember those too. I'm not as young as I look, ya know.   

[tdawnaz]

[move]HAPPY VETERAN'S DAY[/move]

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DID...thank you for serving so that we could all continue to enjoy the freedoms we have...thank you to those that left their families behind to fight for this great land...

thank you to those that are...as we speak serving to ensure these freedoms remain...thank you for all your selfless service...and the atocities and hard times you endure for us...

thank you to all the families that were/are left here while your service man or woman were/are away fighting for us all

[peepnklown]

I hope our soldiers will protect us when the government calls for martial law. 

[tommie gorman]

When the government calls for martial law. 

[peepnklown]

When the government calls for martial law

[tdawnaz]

yesterday was pearl harbor day december 7, 1941 (termed..."america's bloodiest day")...i can't find a thread about it...but i just wanted to say to any vets that r here, that were there and in the battle that followed...thanks for being there for us...gives me chills...2400 americans died that day (almost as many as on 9/11)...and america came into full force in wwII...they knocked us to our knees...but we stood again...and the rest is history

my flag waves for u...

those of u that were old enough to remember listening about it on the radio...do u remember how u felt?...were u scared?...proud to be an american?...shocked?...or couldn't fathom what it all meant?...

talking to my donors yesterday...they said...on dec 7, 1941 that it was a very scarey moment when the news came over the radio...most didn't realize the full ramifications of what had happened...it was surreal...

if u were there...please share what u remember...what were ur thoughts ...ur feelings at the time...

it was a huge day in american/world history...what would have happened if the attack hadn't happened?...if we hadn't been attacked and forced to come out guns a blazin...would this world be a different place now??...