tommie gorman Posted December 13, 2006 Author CID Share Posted December 13, 2006 Now, in retrospective, Irak is probably better off without Saddam, and Afghanistan without the talibans. What bugs me is that the US "mysteriously" attacked countries which had good amounts of oil and that the reconstruction of these countries again "mysteriously" got attributed to friends of the government (Lockheed-martin, etc.). So I'm not so sure about the "without prejudice". Just remember that the US entered WWII only after they got attacked at Pearl Harbour. It gave a reason for which the american public would agree to send their boys. I can't recall any war that the US has waged only for the purpose of international peace, a war in which its interests were not involved. Now I agree that the US, as well as all the other countries included in the allies posted by tommie, did the right thing when they attacked the Nazi regime. I might even admit that they did the right thing by attacking Irak, but for the wrong reasons. Does anyone even still believe that Irak ever had WMDs? Most likely the government needed a pretext to attack, and homeland security proved to be quite efficient, until it was discovered there were no WMDs. The reason that you are being cast as villains are your motives imo. The use of the words "axis of evil", for example, vaguely reminds me of totalitarian regimes. The US should realize that they are not some kind of righteous hand of god, but a country among others which often have different values. I agree that regimes who perpetrate human rights violations daily should be stopped, but then again I think of the US who tortures prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, and I find it a bit ironic that the US wants to "free the people of Irak" but in parallel tortures some of them. But that, really, is just a thought of mine. FIrst off we did not mysteriously attack Afghanistan. I think Bin Laden knew we were coming. Second of all why does it matter who we pay for reconstruction if it is our money in the first place. Does it really matter? Are you saying we attacked Iraq just so we could put money in certain companies pockets for the rebuild, out of our pockets in the first place? Ah oh. What is this I read? " seeking to oust the Taliban and find al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. The Afghan Northern Alliance provided the majority of forces, while the U.S. and fellow NATO members the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain, along with Australia, Pakistan, and New Zealand, provided support." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001-present_war_in_Afghanistan Facts on Canada's Involvement in the Korean War http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=teach_resources/korfact I would have to say after reading that Canada has been involved in many wars. And what are we gaining in Korea at the moment. US soldiers are all ovver the world for peace keeping purposes. You only hear when we finally make some noise. So maybe your views are those of Canada after all. Usually, someone is interesting/intelligent when they think like you I dont like flaming (or being flamed) so if I didn't enjoy it, you wouldn't see me posting. I don't need to have the last word. Not sure what this means exactly, but you might explain it a bit better. I really think the world is upset because we did not wait to involve them in Iraq, so we must be up to something. And maybe also upset because they think we might have gotten some spoils they missed out on. As to the WMDs, they also have not prooved they were not there and moved out. Guantanamo Bay was folks who did things to be prisoners for in the first place. You are like so many Americans who think prisoners should have TV and great food and entertainment. WHY?? One very last stupid question. WHAT THE HELL DOES ALL OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH PATRIOTISM. Try starting a different thread. You have already trashed this one up bad enough. I wish I had a big damned eraser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coknuck Posted December 13, 2006 CID Share Posted December 13, 2006 Here you go Tommie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmanc4 Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Umm, sorry, I disagree. Could you back that up with arguments, not examples? I cannot prove that world peace is possible (although I have examples that make me think it could be) but I feel it, and I will continue to do so until proven otherwise. Well, heres just a couple of reasons. And I as well, would love to think (and used to), that world peace is near.Please, look at some things other than "the people around you". Stop thinking your country is not a target as well as the USA.Evil (which correct me if I'm wrong)you dont believe in,(yet you use the term "feel", where do you suppose thats comming from?) is aligning all around us, and I don't mean just the USA. As far as the notion Iraq, "had no WMD's" , whoa, someones out of touch. Some people only see whats in front of there face , or what is desired. If by now it is not More than obvious , that the WMD's , (that the US did not conceal the ere findings of), were shipped into Russia. The two country's have recently signed a some who knows how many billion dollar weapons deal. This is all to obvious , Although this thread has been hijacked, I still feel the need to say my peace because it is GOD , and Patriotism , that will hold evil at bay. http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/050531a.aspx http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/12/iran.holocaust.conference.reut/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted December 14, 2006 Author CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Thanks coknuck, BIGGER please. The mess is a little bigger than that. We might even need a mop crew. You know I do not mind discussing patriotism and what it means. I just get tired of people who have no idea what it means getting upset and flaming what they have no inkling of an idea about in the first place. I guess it is pure jealously. That must be what makes us so unique and strong. We know how to stand togather, shoulder to shoulder and get something done. Even the flag burners (american ones) seem to dissappear when the chips are down. We get United for one cause. Also probably why we do so much better at sports also. It takes teamwork. And teamwork takes a form of patriotism. So yeah, I guess I am saying Patriotism is teamwork in a different form. edit:spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coknuck Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 How about a Pressure Washer then the mop grew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmanc4 Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Heres what nobody wants to hear (better get something to eat) http://www.glennbeck.com/perfectstorm/index.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted December 14, 2006 Author CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Whatever will clean it up. But it will probably stay messy. How about starting a terrorism thread somewhere with that mudmanc4. I know I would appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmanc4 Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Whatever will clean it up. But it will probably stay messy. How about starting a terrorism thread somewhere with that mudmanc4. I know I would appreciate it. Yea , you right! Your point is taken:) I simply am trying to make a point. IMO, it all ties in together.If we dont have patriotism , well enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdawnaz Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 ima ask u all again...one last time...please...mind ur manners boys...keep it at discussion level...no inflamatory remarks or categorizing...k? please??... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltageman Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 FIrst off we did not mysteriously attack Afghanistan. I think Bin Laden knew we were coming. And we knew what weapons we would be against, and what tactics would be used against up since in the 80's, we pumped tons money and weapons into Afghanistan, and pretty much trained them how to make IED's, which they used with much success against the Soviets. We were at war with the Soviet Union...Kind of.. The unfortunate consequence is that those weapons and tactics would eventually be used to kill our own troops...It's sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted December 14, 2006 Author CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Yea , you right! Your point is taken:) I simply am trying to make a point. IMO, it all ties in together.If we dont have patriotism , well enough said. I know, and I appreciate it. But like salt and pepper, it goes togather. But at the same time you don't put them in the same shaker. And that is also the sad truth Voltageman. But luckily everytime we attack someone, we seem to show some new toys we have developed during break time. So we are always one step ahead at least. I remember when I first saw the smart bomb in The Gulf War. I was totally amazed at the new weaponary we had in that war. And again in this one we saw some more new stuff. At least it was new for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdawnaz Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 But like salt and pepper, it goes togather. But at the same time you don't put them in the same shaker. yes i do...i do put salt and pepper together in the same shaker...grind them together...and actually tommie...hehe...u can buy it that way in the store...it's called seasoned pepper...kinda like seasoned salt...but with more pepper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted December 14, 2006 Author CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Should have known. There is one of you in every crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le_Murphant Posted December 14, 2006 CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 Alright, I have a lot to reply, but I agree that we move it to another thread that does not discuss directly patriotism but the US foreign policy in general. Can one of you guys create such a thread. I'm not a regular forum poster and I'm too lazy to find out how to create one. Then plz post the link in this thread. Oh and can we keep the level of flame the way it is tdawnaz? I doubt that I can express my ideas whistle flaming less than I am actually Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted December 14, 2006 Author CID Share Posted December 14, 2006 OK, so here is the link Le_Murphant http://www.testmy.net/forum/index.php?topic=17492.new#new Hope that is what you wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted December 15, 2006 Author CID Share Posted December 15, 2006 Written by an Australian Dentist... (recieved as an e-mail) To Kill an American You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American. So an Australian dentist wrote an editorial the following day to let everyone know what an American is, so they would know when they found one. (Good one, mate!!!!) "An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani or Afghan. An American may also be a Comanche, Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans. An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses. An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God. An American lives in the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness. An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return. When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country! As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor inAfghanistan. Americans welcome the best of everything...the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best services. But they also welcome the least. The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America. Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001 earning a better life for their families. It's been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 different countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists. So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and other blood-thirsty tyrants in the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American. It was given this subject line. So I assume this has happened before. "IS IT TIME FOR THIS RERUN ???" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resopalrabotnick Posted December 15, 2006 CID Share Posted December 15, 2006 nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWO Posted January 21, 2007 CID Share Posted January 21, 2007 America the Beautiful...Sure Hope We Defend and Keep It This Way! This A Really OK Click and See For Your Self . leave It on - Takes A little time to load and It will start itself. http://oldbluewebdesigns.com/mybeautifulamerica.htm God Bless America !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmanc4 Posted January 22, 2007 CID Share Posted January 22, 2007 America the Beautiful...Sure Hope We Defend and Keep It This Way! This A Really OK Click and See For Your Self . leave It on - Takes A little time to load and It will start itself. http://oldbluewebdesigns.com/mybeautifulamerica.htm God Bless America !!!! Yeah....nice . It its a great looking country ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted January 22, 2007 Author CID Share Posted January 22, 2007 Very nice EWO. Actually if I retire ( or find extra time on my hands ) I really want to see much more of this huge country that so many died to save for us. Thanks EWO. They were beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coknuck Posted January 22, 2007 CID Share Posted January 22, 2007 You know that one thing I couldn't understand is why people go to Europe, when there is so much to see right here at Home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWO Posted January 22, 2007 CID Share Posted January 22, 2007 I've been in all the states ( 49 ) but Wisconsin and I never get tired of visiting them.time and time again. This is a very beautiful country populated by the Greatest People on Earth ( with a few exceptions here and there ) Lets all take care of the USA and each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coknuck Posted January 22, 2007 CID Share Posted January 22, 2007 When I was in the Motorcycle Club, I used to hit 22-25 states every summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommie gorman Posted January 22, 2007 Author CID Share Posted January 22, 2007 Thats a lot of states coknuck. Great memories. I guess I have traveled through 9, lived in 3 and have not been past Kansas west. You two are way ahead of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWO Posted January 22, 2007 CID Share Posted January 22, 2007 I got started in 1953 at the age of 13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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