P A T R I O T I S M

[Sequoia]

Heres some things I posted that are similar to whats in the video tommie gorman posted.I'm sure I could find more.So I agreed with the video before I saw it.

http://www.testmy.net/t-20799.msg239096#msg239096

Let a modern Thomas Payne start up & see how fast he is locked up.

So ask this :How many of you have your arms(rifles) ready ?When you see the militias of Minutemen forming are you ready to join them?Even if it means you lose all you now have& maybe your family suffers for the consequences of your actions.

This is what the patriots of the first American Revolution risked.How many Americans do you know that are ready to risk the same?

Because that's what it's going to take.

There are a couple of President Theodore Roosevelt quote this topic.

http://www.testmy.net/t-24172.msg279758#msg279758

President Washington & Hamilton here:

http://www.testmy.net/t-24172.msg279825#msg279825

Check out this Alan Shore video

[Roco]

I wish every one in the world would watch this video. 

 

TWICE !

I watched it once ,( I have a download limit )  but that was enough for me . whats all this Uni culture ?  spoken by a clown in 17 century  English drag , By English I mean British English , as spoken originally by the Anglo Saxons , who were what is now Germans ,  we are all  F**king mongrels  with blood lines from so many different tribes ,, there is no Uni culture , unless you wish to believe there is , The French ain't pure French , the Italian ain't pure Italian etc  , America was born of a melting pot of nations , any nation that was Uni died out thousands of years ago ,  Romans etc.

Just my view ,

BTW,  nothing wrong with P A T R I O T I S M  , be proud of your country , but don't ignore it's history  .

[Sequoia]

First he is dressed as Thomas Payne.Who may have dressed like that.See portrait of Payne below;

The uni culture is the type America used to have .When immigrants came to America learned to speak the American form of English.Adopted the basic American values & customs.

They didn't want to stay in their own community where they speak the language of their former country & observe its' customs & traditions.Their loyalty still being to their former country.

The Uni-culture of the USA is to become an American.

Not a polyglot where in some areas there is a Little China,Little Viet Nam,Little Mexico,Little India,Little Egypt,etc.

Again there is room in America for one flag & one national loyalty that is to the USA.That is the American uniculture.

It has nothing to do with bloodlines it is values & beliefs & culture lines.

So if you want to be French stay in France,If you want to be Italian stay in Italy,If you want to be German I'm not sure now but stay in Germany or maybe England,etc.

If you want to live in the USA be an American.Become a US citizen & act like one.Leave your old country behind.If your loyalty is to your old country the go the hell back there & be loyal to that country.

[Sequoia]

( I have a download limit ) 

So any of the flash videos like YouTube count as DL?

That one is approx 15MB

The Alan Shore one is 12MB.

[Roco]

Hi Sequoia , yeah they count for me ,  .  I puled up Sharp at the uni culture ,

The last ones I can think of was your native Americans and Adolph Hitlers Germany neither lasted very long , and I feel sure the early immigrants to America didn't assimilate for a hundred years or more , it  is reckoned to take 3 generations before that happens , do you relly expect a immigrant to walk into the USA , and speak and love America from day one ? , and do you not think you can learn some from his integration process ? if you cannot you have a closed mind IMHO , and doomed to fall behind in this modern world ,

no one nation has the Know it all answer , fully close your door to all other folk , and you will interbreed and end up like the Roman empire , long gone ,

Just my personal thoughts , no insult intended etc.

Roco ...Great Britain , the land of pomp and ceremony .( lol we do it for the tourists )

[tdawnaz]

Roco ...Great Britain , the land of pomp and ceremony .( lol we do it for the tourists )

[Roco]

The word

[EWO]

REVOLTING is very proper Brit.

[mudmanc4]

REVOLTING is very proper Brit.

[Roco]

REVOLTING is very proper Brit.

It's just a gift we  have ,  it's the old bulldog spirit , wag our tails to your face , then bite yer ass when your back is turned ,  ,

BTW, I did vote "yes, a tear " in the poll ,

[Roco]

Sorry for the double post , on this topic , I tried to explain my European view  on patriotism ,

nothing more , I ain't anti American , I ain't a Muslim , I just ain't anything,  just a plain old Brit , that does care about America ,

[coknuck]

I personally like to hear your views. Keeps the topics from becoming balanced and bias. I don't think anyone thinks your disrespectful at all. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one!

[Roco]

I personally like to hear your views. Keeps the topics from becoming balanced and bias. I don't think anyone thinks your disrespectful at all. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one!

Thanks on that Coknuck , much appreciated ,  I can now blame you for my future posts and sleep easy ,  ,  only kidding , lol I have been on the forum for 2 1/2 years , and enjoyed every moment  , for me America is the great unknown , but not for one minute have I regretted joining , seen some good folk come and go , and made some good true friends on the way, and thats as far as I go on P A T R I O T I S M   

[tommie gorman]

Thanks on that Coknuck , much appreciated ,  I can now blame you for my future posts and sleep easy ,  ,  only kidding , lol I have been on the forum for 2 1/2 years , and enjoyed every moment  , for me America is the great unknown , but not for one minute have I regretted joining , seen some good folk come and go , and made some good true friends on the way, and thats as far as I go on P A T R I O T I S M   

Works for me. And as far as I am concerned you have more american patriotism than many americans do. 

Heck, blame them on me, I can take it. 

[Roco]

Works for me. And as far as I am concerned you have more american patriotism than many americans do. 

Heck, blame them on me, I can take it. 

Bro , I take that as a complement , thanks ,  I have been told I don't understand the way Americans think , well never having been there it's not surprising ,and I guess most Americans don't understand the way I think , that is just a product of our upbringing ,

we share the same language , but our histories are so different,

neither is right or wrong  , imho ,  but I do have concerns about Americas direction, and your new president , whoever that may be,  coz t will affect the world ,  and will go down in history , to be read by future generations,  IMHO, today is ours, but the future belongs  to the following generations, 

[Sequoia]

Hi Sequoia

The last ones I can think of was your native Americans and Adolph Hitlers Germany neither lasted very long

The Native Americans were hardly a uniculture.If they had been they would have been much harder to defeat.

There were several different nations of Native American & most of these had several different tribes that comprised them.Sometime you should do some research of this you might find it interesting.I think you will find the Native Americans Called Indians even before the USA existed.Each had their own name for themselves Indians was a European term.They existed in North America for centuries before the "white"man came.So I don't understand the didn't last very long applied to them.

The Nazis under Hitler were short lived so to speak .I really haven't studied the Nazi culture much.I know they thought the Aryans were superior to all other humans.Interesting when one looks a Hitler who hardly could be considered Aryan.

and I feel sure the early immigrants to America didn't assimilate for a hundred years or more , it  is reckoned to take 3 generations before that happens , do you really expect a immigrant to walk into the USA , and speak and love America from day one ?

The early immigrants came to colonies in North America.These were claimed by several European nations.The British Empire,France ,Spain,etc.So these were in North America about 2 & 3/4 centuries before the American Revolutionary War.So if those are the immigrants you are talking about They were assimilated by the time The USA was formed.

Which would have been 1781 at the earliest because we couldn't have been a country before we won the American Revolution.It took a while before there was an actual government after that.

For people that were immigrants after the USA was well established .My answer is they should have loved the USA before they even came.Certainly more than the country the immigrated from.

There goal should have been to assimilate into the USA speak American English & adopt American customs leaving their former ones behind.If they wanted their former customs they should have stayed where they already had them.

The speaking might have taking a while maybe a year or two but should have been one of their main goals & certainly not teaching their children their former foreign language.At least not until they had learned American English well.Then maybe.

and do you not think you can learn some from his integration process ? if you cannot you have a closed mind IMHO

I can watch & see if & how hard he works at becoming an American.The effort made to learn American English & American customs.I might learn from that if I saw it.If that is what you are asking.

That's not what I thought you were asking .

So if you mean can I learn something from the skills or knowledge .

Maybe if that knowledge is not already available to me in the USA.That wouldn't be in many areas.

As for his ideas or customs we already have the ones America needs if we get rid of all the ones from foreign cultures that have managed to creep in

no one nation has the Know it all answer , fully close your door to all other folk , and you will interbreed and end up like the Roman empire , long gone ,

I don't believe the USA has the "Know it all answer " for other countries.We do have it for the USA if we apply it like we did at one time.That's what has caused us a lot of trouble trying to force our ideals on other countries .Like we are now doing in Iraq.

I think we could fully close our door to all other folk.As far as immigrating here.We could still communicate but  I would severely limit trade or citizenship.

I'm not worried about inbreeding the USA has a diverse enough gene pool to last centuries without introducing more.

I think the Romans bred with all the countries they conquered.

Their defeat & end was cause by what is causing the USA's demise .Greed of those in power.Both the seen like politicians & the unseen the really rich & corporations that rule by bribery of the politicians.Just because they call it lobbying doesn't mean it's not really bribery.

[Roco]

with respect Sequoia 

it's late UK so I Will study your post more fully later, indeed up to the European invasion the Native Americans had no call for a Uni culture ,

but they finally had to form a convention , to attempt to stop the invaders stealing their land ,it failed and 15 million native Americans disappeared withinh 100 years ,

they were given the name Indians because the Brits thought they thought they had discovered a short route to the Asian Indian world , correct me if I am wrong ,

Regards

Roco ... UK

[Sequoia]

Roco;The Native Americans never formed any convention like you suggest.I guess you might explain further why you think they did;then I might be able to understand your thoughts on why you think they did.

The Sioux already a nation of different Sioux nations & tribes probably had one of the best joinings of nations.Even that was not even close to a uniting of all the Native American nations.

That has still not happened even today.The closest would be the American Indian Movement but that is a 20th century organization.I need to do a long post on the Patriotism of this group.Some of the last patriots of the revolutionary type.

I hope you're not counting the Bureau of Indian Affairs as the convention because they were formed by the US government.Many times they were more the thieves of land & looked to the governments interest not the Native Americans.

It wasn't the Brits that gave them the name Indians;I guess they might have done the interpretation of the Italian or Spanish.Remember it was Columbus an Italian working as an explorer for Spain that found America & thought it was India.The Vikings were probably the first Europeans to discover America but it can't be said they actually claimed it or settled long term.So historically credit is given to Columbus & the name Indian has its roots from him.

[Roco]

You will have to excuse me there , I was thinking of the The Iroquois Confederacy (also known as the "League of Peace and Power", but then American history was not taught in UK schools , and I can see why it has not happend today , with a native population reduced from approx 20 million to half that number I guess  it will never happen , 

indeed the Vikings were now proved to be the first , and  had the first European born in the new world , but they found the natives hostile and only stayed for about 2 years ,

the UK came late into the new country , we were to busy fighting the Dutch, Portuguese and Spain  for control of the seas , and we had greater interest in China and India ,

mainly for the spices and TEA 

[tommie gorman]

I am glad we fall  for pretty women instead of a bloody cup of tea.  :haha:

[Roco]

I am glad we fall  for pretty women instead of a bloody cup of tea.  :haha:

I hope I never have to choose , 

Btw,  at my age you can drop the "pretty"  old English saying " who looks at the mantlepiece while stocking the fire  ,  ?

[Sequoia]

You will have to excuse me there , I was thinking of the The Iroquois Confederacy (also known as the "League of Peace and Power", 

Although these were as important as any they only represent a small group of the American Indian Nations:

Iroquois Confederacy that originally consisted of five nations: the Mohawk, the Oneida, the Onondaga, the Cayuga, and the Seneca. A sixth tribe, the Tuscarora, joined after the original five nations were formed.These are all N.E. tribes.

a native population reduced from approx 20 million to half that number

There are many estimates & it's hard to know which one is accurate.Here is another estimate:

according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a "vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record.

This is about the AIM & Wounded Knee of 1973.I consider the Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee true patriots of the type that fought against the existing government in the American Revolution.

Too bad their numbers weren't greater.It does show that citizens can still revolt against government.

Too bad more of us other American citizens weren't there with them.Maybe the US government wouldn't be doing what they are now selling us average citizens out.For money to feed their greed.

These Indians are Patriots & Heroes showing the rest of us Americans what we should be doing to stop an out of control government.

http://www.essortment.com/all/siegewoundedkn_rmpq.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbSsk6afIbY

[Roco]

Thanks for the links and info Sequoia ,  I did know the 5-6 nations,  the Tuscarora arrived later from the south ,

I need to study more ,I guess ,

but back on topic "patrotism ", nothing wrong in loving your country , IMNO,

maybe the Brits are not so strong on that , we have a different outlook I guess ,

for us wherever the Queen (bee ?) settles is good enough for us ,and if the hive gets too crowded  we spread our wings and move on,hence the spread of the English language ?.

personally , I ain't bothered what part of the world I live in , as long as the living is easy ,

and I guess thats the way the worlds migrants see it ,

BTW, more English are leaving the UK , than Migrants are comming in,

top destinations Spain and Florida USA  for retirement  ,but the reverse is also true in that nobody from outside the UK  would think of retiring to the UK,

edit to add ,Sequoia      the second youtube has a powerfull message , thanks for that ,

it stoped me in my tracks ,

the first vid , I had some trouble with the download , but now OK , just so sad , and not that long ago ,

[Sequoia]

The reason for the second video glad you enjoyed it.One I've always liked Johnny Cash.It did show pictures of the American Indian residential schools.If you noticed the dates on the schools they were much later than most people think.The Indian children sent to them usually by force or coercion to take the Indian out of them.

To me the first video about Wounded Knee of 1973 shows patriotism.The Indians did the sacred duty of American citizens.Taking on  the government when it oppress's its' citizens.An example the rest of us American citizens should take notice of & follow the Native Americans' example to be willing to die if necessary .

To stop the government when it is wrong.

Kind of ironic that the Native American Nations whose lands "White" Americans took are the ones showing us the way.

That we need to stop the government before we are more slaves than we now are.

I am loyal to America but not to the corrupt government that is now in power.What we have now is not what the founding fathers & framers of the Constitution intended.

They are probably turning over in their graves at what the US government has become & that the American citizens have allowed it to.

I think Americans are patriotic because we call those that founded the country Patriots.These men did write their share of documents & laws we are still supposed to live by.As our main laws & principles.

Like the Brits are loyal to the queen; Americans are loyal to this country.Our very roots begin with patriotism.

IMO if a person is an American & hearing & saying the Pledge of Allegiance doesn't give them a tingle up their back.Then something is wrong with their thinking & needs to be adjusted by their fellow Americans.Same for the National Anthem.

I know the Brits also have a National Anthem.Does it stir any patriotism in Brits?

btw I know it is God save the Queen or King which ever is reigning at the time.

[Roco]

Hi Sequoia , I didn't actually "enjoy it " it I found it very disturbing that in this hi tech age ,Humans are still engaging our Prehistoric intelligence ,

the Brit national anthem ? , I haven't hear it played live for over 20 years , my grandchildren wouldn't know the words ,  not sure I do now either , normally if it is played,  it starts a stampede to the exit ,

Governments ? I guess you get what you vote for ?, in the UK the government isn't the sole power , and not having a written constitution makes a difference maybe

"The British Constitution comes from a variety of sources. The main ones are:

Statutes such as the Magna Carta of 1215 and the Act of Settlement of 1701.

Laws and Customs of Parliament; political conventions

Case law; constitutional matters decided in a court of law

Amendments to Britain