Obama, the antichrist ?

[ghostmaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJaPPlzKDIo

On a funnier note, here is a video of it.  If I had to listen to someone butcher our anthem like that, I don't think I could salute either...

[tommie gorman]

Then maybe we should salute his ideas on this:

Never gonna back his ass. No matter what, he is not good for america period.

[ghostmaster]

Not that I think we should be teaching kids that young about sex, but I think this raises an important question about sex education.  Obviously we've been doing it wrong for a long time.  I think it goes back to the fact that in this country, we treat sex as though its bad, and try to bury it and hide it.  I think thats the reason teens are doing it.  It's part of the teenage rebellion. 

We celebrate violence on TV, but God forbid a nude butt show up on the screen.  Then you get 150 parents calling the local station to complain about seeing something that every human being has, and what 15% of our population is.  An ASS.....

[philp]

Kids get enough of the wrong kind of sex education from video games, movies and the garbage that passes for music these days. They don't need sex education to be scheduled in between finger painting and nap time in their kindergarten class. Let them be kids, for crying out loud. Teach them about sex when they are old enough to understand what they are being taught.

[Sequoia]

Maybe Obama needs to run for president of Coca Cola.I wouldn't even vote for him there.

[tommie gorman]

If you have to teach a kid under 12 anything about sex except how to stay clean. Then there is definitely something wrong with the system in the first place. Let them be kids dammit. Why rip out their innocence. They deserve good times too. Let them play  for goodness sake.

And why I raise my kids in the quiet country. 5 miles from town. 

[ghostmaster]

Just to be clear, im not talking about teaching sex ed to young kids.  I commenting on the general disdain towards sex in this country, and how we need to stop burying it as though its a bad thing.

[mudmanc4]

Just to be clear, im not talking about teaching sex ed to young kids.  I commenting on the general disdain towards sex in this country, and how we need to stop burying it as though its a bad thing.

I agree with that, I wonder where , and why this ever started.  It's how we reproduce, it has caused wars, and nations to be built.  We as a human race are guided by chemicals, and unknowingly force us to "feel" different ways about different situations.

[Sequoia]

If you have to teach a kid under 12 anything about sex except how to stay clean. Then there is definitely something wrong with the system in the first place. Let them be kids dammit. Why rip out their innocence. They deserve good times too. Let them play  for goodness sake.

tommie gorman ; I would like it if it was your way but even when I was a child it wasn't .Children in my neighborhood checked each other out to put it politely.Sometimes more than that .I believe my first playing doctor was at 6 with a girl the same age being instructed by a 10 year old.

Still I believe it's the parents job to do the instructing not the schools but the parents need to do it.

[tommie gorman]

This should prove quite interesting indeed. To see what he says now. <wink> 

LAKE FOREST, Calif. - Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain agreed to appear on the same stage Saturday night, if only to share a handshake, as a televised discussion of faith ends a mid-August lull in the presidential campaign.

Obama spent the past week vacationing in Hawaii, and McCain held only a handful of public events during a time when many Americans were preoccupied with the Olympics and their own vacations. The contest now regains some intensity, starting with the two-hour forum hosted by the minister Rick Warren at his megachurch in Orange County, Calif.

Warren, nationally known for his sermons and best-selling book "The Purpose-Driven Life," will be the only questioner. Obama will appear during the first hour and McCain will take the second.

The men, whose generally cordial relationship as senators is being strained by the campaign, are scheduled to shake hands onstage during the switch.

The forum carries opportunities and risks for both candidates. It gives Obama a chance to discuss his Christian faith and counter inaccurate beliefs that he is a Muslim. But it also may highlight his positions on issues such as supporting abortion rights, which Warren and many other evangelicals oppose.

McCain's positions are more in line with evangelical Christians. But he often seems uncomfortable talking about his faith and other personal beliefs, and the Christian right shows less enthusiasm for him than for past GOP contenders.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080816/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_religion

Gonna reserve a seat in the front room for that one. Got kids you know the drill. 

[tommie gorman]

Didn't turn out too bad.

Sharing stage, Obama and McCain split on abortion

LAKE FOREST, Calif. - Presidential contenders Barack Obama and John McCain differed sharply on abortion Saturday, with McCain saying a baby's human rights begin "at conception," while Obama restated his support for legalized abortion.

Appearing on the same stage for the first time in months, although they overlapped only briefly, the two men shared their views on a range of moral, foreign and domestic issues as they near their respective nominating conventions.

Obama said he would limit abortions in the late stages of pregnancy if there are exceptions for the mother's health. He said he knew that people who consider themselves pro-life will find his stance "inadequate."

He said the government should do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies and to help struggling new mothers, such as providing needed resources to the poor, and better adoption services.

McCain expressed his anti-abortion stand simply and quickly, saying human rights begin the instant a human egg is fertilized. McCain, who adopted a daughter from Bangladesh, also called for making adoption easier.

The men's comments came at a two-hour forum on faith hosted by the minister Rick Warren at his megachurch in Orange County, Calif. Obama joined Warren for the first hour, and McCain for the second. The two candidates briefly shook hands and hugged each other during the switch. McCain said he did not see or hear Obama's session, which would have given him an advantage.

Obama said America's greatest moral failure is its insufficient help to the disadvantaged. He noted that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying "whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me." He said the maxim should apply to victims of poverty, sexism and racism.

McCain said the nation's greatest moral shortcoming is its failure to "devote ourselves to causes greater than our self-interests."

After the September 2001 terrorist attacks, McCain said, there should have been a national push for joining the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations. His comment seemed an indirect criticism of President Bush, who had urged tax cuts and more shopping at the time to stimulate the economy.

McCain also said he would pursue Osama bin Laden "to the gates of Hell," another goal that might be seen as a swipe at the Bush administration.

Both men said marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Obama added that he supports civil unions for gay partners, which would give them rights such as hospital visits with one another. He said he opposed a constitutional ban on gay marriage, calling the matter a state issue.

McCain's answer was less clear. If a federal court ordered his state, Arizona, to honor gay marriages allowed in Massachusetts, he said, "then I would favor a constitutional amendment. Until then, I believe the states should make the decisions within their own states."

In several cases, Obama gave a Christian interpretation to his generally liberal political views. He said he is redeemed by Jesus, who died for his sins.

McCain tended to give shorter, less complex answers, winning somewhat more applause than Obama from the large, evangelical church's audience. On domestic matters, he restated his call to "drill now" in U.S. lands and waters for oil and natural gas.

McCain, asked the toughest decision in his life, cited his refusal to be released ahead of fellow U.S. prisoners of war in North Vietnam. "It took a lot of prayer," he said.

He retold his story of a Christmas Day celebration outside his cell, when a prison guard etched a cross into the dirt. "For a moment, we were just two Christians worshipping there," McCain said.

Warren asked each man to name a Supreme Court justice he would not have appointed. Obama cited Clarence Thomas. "I don't think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation, setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretations of a lot of the Constitution," Obama said.

He also named Justices Antonin Scalia and John Roberts, although he praised their intellect.

McCain named the court's four most liberal members: Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and John Paul Stevens.

When Warren asked Obama to define the word "rich," the Illinois senator teased the pastor about the mammoth sales of his book, "The Purpose Driven Life." Obama noted his plan to add a new Social Security payroll tax to incomes above $250,000 a year.

McCain said, "some of the richest people I've ever known in my life are the most unhappy."

He said being rich should be defined by having a home and a prosperous and safe world. Without mentioning Obama, he said some want to increase taxes.

"I don't want to take any money from the rich. I want everybody to get rich," McCain said.

When pushed on an exact number, he joked: "If you're just talking about income, how about five million?" He added, "I'm sure that comment will be distorted."

Asked to name three wise people they would listen to, Obama named his wife, Michelle; his maternal grandmother, who lives in Hawaii; and, not limiting himself to only a third, named several Democratic and Republican lawmakers.

McCain named Gen. David Petreaus, head of U.S. troops in Iraq; U.S. Rep. and veteran civil rights leader John Lewis, D-Ga.; and former eBay CEO Meg Whitman, a top adviser to his campaign.

He lauded Whitman for turning a five-person business into a billion-dollar piece of the economy. "It's one of these great economic success stories," McCain said.

Obama, asked his most significant policy shift in the last 10 years, cited welfare reform. As an Illinois state senator, he worked to mitigate what he thought could be "disastrous" effects of President Clinton's welfare reform effort. But over time he said he came to embrace Clinton's approach.

"We have to have work as a centerpiece of any social policy," Obama said.

Asked why they want to be president, Obama said the United States should be an empathetic power for good in the world, a mission he fears is slipping away.

McCain said, "I want to inspire a generation of Americans to serve a cause greater than its self interest. . But I also believe we face enormous challenges, both of national security and domestic."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080817/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_religion

It still looks to me like McCain is doing better, but as usual Obama will do well no matter what.   

[philp]

(From news story, not tommie's words}

Obama said he would limit abortions in the late stages of pregnancy if there are exceptions for the mother's health. He said he knew that people who consider themselves pro-life will find his stance "inadequate."

He said the government should do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies and to help struggling new mothers, such as providing needed resources to the poor, and better adoption services.

This is the biggest load of shit. The government should absolutely stay out of everyone's sex life. Who should "do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies", you ask? The people having unprotected sport sex, not the damn government! 

If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should insist on birth control or abstinence. Or does that just make too much sense to Senator Obama? 

Why should my tax money be used to encourage promiscuity? I don't care how poor you are, it doesn't cost a dime to NOT have sex.

[mudmanc4]

If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should insist on birth control or abstinence. Or does that just make too much sense to Senator Obama? 

Why should my tax money be used to encourage promiscuity? I don't care how poor you are, it doesn't cost a dime to NOT have sex.

I'm sayin!!!!!!  It gets tiring , for the most part, the left would like you to believe that you cannot control yourself, and that government needs to be big enough to control every aspect of your life, that the government is there to make all your decisions for you, sex, food, finances, healthcare, what to teach your kids, this is not the way people  !!!!!!

[scdreamin3]

  And I blame us, the American constituents, for letting the Government have so much control in the first da*n place. Hell, do you think 200 years ago the Government had so much power? So many agencies have been created as well that one agency doesn't know what the other is doing. It has just gotten out of hand.

  We let the government tell us we can't have prayer in schools, we can't spank our kids (I know I got more than a few whuppins when I was growing up and it didn't hurt me). We can't smoke in public places, well now, don't get me wrong here, I believe that me being a smoker, sitting next to you being a non smoker, I should get up and move where the smoke doesn't bother you. But I mean, c'mon, in a lot of restaurants around here they have, or should I say had, special "smoking" rooms where there were filters in place so the smoke wouldn't bother or harm the other patrons. And now smoking in the area is banned. What a crock of horse patooey.

  In America the Government controls the people, in many other nations the people control the Government. You have taxes on this and taxes on that. And soon they will even be taxing me when I take a dunk. Our nation was founded on the premise that the government be formed and governed by the PEOPLE. Now it is formed and governed by those in power, that we put in power.

  I am telling you, vote for Obama and government will again gain much more control. And we will once again be like lambs led to the slaughter, naive , unbeknownst to what the government is doing. Thats my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!!

  Anyway, boy I sure went off in a tirade on that one.

[tdawnaz]

This is the biggest load of S#!t. The government should absolutely stay out of everyone's sex life. Who should "do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies", you ask? The people having unprotected sport sex, not the damn government! 

If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should insist on birth control or abstinence. Or does that just make too much sense to Senator Obama? 

Why should my tax money be used to encourage promiscuity? I don't care how poor you are, it doesn't cost a dime to NOT have sex.

new bill proposal (by me)...if the gov't wants to control the ability of people (letting the gov't pay their way) procreate...this should be a new bill or some form of it...

any man or woman wanting or collecting public assistance of any kind that already has 2 children should be sterilized...so as not to bring any more children in to burden the system.

i actually saw a wall hanger in the court house with flyer's in it that basically said that...if you are A. on public assistance B. on parole or probation C. drug addicted that is agency would pay you $200 to A. give you a tubal ligation or vasectomy OR B. implant a birth control device (norplant type or IUD) now that's cooking, because...and no judgement being passed...but people in those situations often beget children that do the same )...and it all becomes a way of life...welfare lineage...incarcerated lineage...drug addicted lineage...(i know there are always exceptions...that's why it's voluntary and paid)

for get abortion altogether unless the life of the mother is threatened

it's not her right to kill that baby she created in her womb and if it's not a baby (from the moment of conception) then WHY DOES SHE NEED AN ABORTION...it's not a form of birth control

if she had taken adult responsibility then she wouldn't be faced with this decision...God don't make mistakes...forget abortion support adoption...focus on that...

[EWO]

:afro: :afro: :3some:

[Sequoia]

Here's a switch I'm pretty much in agreement with tdawnaz.

I think sterilization for the first pregnancy after the child is born.A DNA done on the child to match to the father.

I think both should be sterilized.So I'm even more harsh on this.

I also think DNA should be mandatory for all babies & matched to the parents.If both parents can't be matched then social services takes custody till they can.This would prevent mistakes at the hospital of parents taking home the wrong baby,let the father know from the start if the child is his(good if a divorce happens).etc.

There would be exceptions  rape for example .

[mudmanc4]

Here's a switch I'm pretty much in agreement with tdawnaz.

I think sterilization for the first pregnancy after the child is born.A DNA done on the child to match to the father.

I think both should be sterilized.So I'm even more harsh on this.

I also think DNA should be mandatory for all babies & matched to the parents.If both parents can't be matched then social services takes custody till they can.This would prevent mistakes at the hospital of parents taking home the wrong baby,let the father know from the start if the child is his(good if a divorce happens).etc.

There would be exceptions  rape for example .

:haha: :haha:   I had no idea you were that far left thinking for being such a bible thumper.  Sterilization ? Come on, if thats not government control nothing is.  Is people taking home the wrong child some kind of unheard of epidemic now ? :haha:

Anyway, thanks for the laugh,  I can't even type right now  :haha: :haha:

Look, if we simply put the people on the welfare system to work the jobs that are needed in our country, then they would continue to get paid, simple as that. No insanely long amendments, no long taxpayer dollar funded supreme court ruling, just write the law, and put it through. 

But that won't happen because there are so many people that , once again, believe that the government owes them, and they need to be taken care of, and the rich are taking all the money ( little hint, the rich are rich because they did something to get it, and there doing more to keep it, just in case people thought they stole it from the welfare system ) and that we need to punish them because they have been productive, and pay 80% + of the US's taxes.

[tdawnaz]

muddy what i was saying is...is very fantastic to say the least and won't happen...but the reality is...alot of people on welfare have been their whole life and chances r their parents and grandparents were too...but what i said is way out there i know...but i truly bleive that if they want to continue to receive assistance then they need some sort of permanent forced promisory contract  that insures that the handout stops there. fact is (and i know this first hand from the situation with my dau in law) those suckin off the system as a lifetime career, don't want a job and have no intention of getting a job. now there r people that for whatever reason need temporary assistance and can't stand the thought of a handout from uncle sam (i was there myself for a couple of months many years ago after my husbands death...i was a princess u know)...those people want a job...but not the career welfare addicts.  so i say for those...isay...make a permanent commitment to to the cycle...get sterilized...pay them for it...let it be done...can u imagine the money it would save the taxpayers.

k...i've shot my mouth off enough

[mudmanc4]

Im with you other than the damn government controlled sterilization . And there's no way anyone will even entertain it. 

[coknuck]

That's when you tell the Welfare Recipients its this way or the Highway!

[mudmanc4]

That's when you tell the Welfare Recipients its this way or the Highway!

Simple as that.

No bull carp about it.

[Sequoia]

mudmanc4 ;I am left on this because I see nothing else that would work.I feel I & the government has a say because citizens like you & me pay for the welfare.I'm not responsible for the child so why should I pay?If  I(we) pay then we should have a say in how to stop it from happening again.

I know you hear some Christians quote "Be fruitful & multiply" well people have done that & we now have plenty of people.

Heres an example if there were as many grizzly bears as people on the Earth .Would you want to control the grizzly bear population?Because they would sure be controlling the people population.

There are not too many wrong babies per year but it does happen.Mostly this lets the father know he is the father from the start.If the father is the husband then he will be responsible if not the bio father will have to start paying child support or go to jail.I think that would help with some of the bio fathers that get by without paying think at least a little.

Also if you didn't know this in some states the husband is presumed by law to be the father & required to pay child support even if DNA proves he isn't the father.At least this would stop that before he had 6 kids to support that are not his.In some states there is an exception if the DNA is taken before the divorce is finalized & the husband is not the father then he doesn't have to pay child support.If after he does.

Some states the DNA is all that's needed if a man isn't the father he doesn't pay. Are those good enough reasons

for mandatory DNA?

I'm still waiting for a reverse case.A man brings a baby home that is his from an affair.Then his wife divorces him & has to pay child support because she is presumed to be the mother because the child was born during the marriage.

I think the law is only actually written about the man & women get off on this one .So much for equality.

[mudmanc4]

Ok I understand your frustration but we cant keep making these damn regulations. It's so far out of reality that we in general don't even know if we are breaking the law on any given day, for cryin out loud man, we have to stop the growth of government, and getting people off the welfare system , other than the ones that actual have physical or mental needs, lets not be ridiculous here, but look at the layabouts punks that are eating the country out of house and home, the government is becoming the same thing.

[coknuck]

I think these Kids and I mean Kids that are under age having children shouldn't get welfare Make their parent pay for the child. I don't see why we should have to pay for Little Billy Bastard! I didn't screw the bitch, but I'm getting screwed!