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tommie gorman

P A T R I O T I S M

How many people feel strongly about the USA, and what it stands for?  

95 members have voted

  1. 1. How many people feel strongly about the USA, and what it stands for?

    • Yes, a tear
      68
    • Not a tear
      15
    • Don't care
      13


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thats why Ive stooped posting in these type of topics, they have really gotten over done.

I haven't went back & checked my posts in this topic but I bet none of mine looked like they supported Bush old or new.The only good thing I have to say about old Bush is a least he really served in the military & one more he's no longer President.

Miles_Smiles ;I'm an isolationist so I wouldn't have gotten involved I any war that did not directly attack the USA.So I guess that would have been WW2 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor & I think the Nazi's had attacked some US private ships that were taking goods to England.I'm not sure about the last one & haven't went back & researched it.

I think after the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan germany surrendered pretty quick after.So a direct result of the USA being in the war.

Didn't the Viet Nam war start between N.Viet Nam & France?

I am not behind Bush.I do support some of his religious values.But for his part I think this is just part of his act to get votes.He's a multi-faced lying snake who ought to be tried for treason & not just impeached.So I don't think that is support.I think he was actually illegally elected by the Supreme Court the first time .With the help of his brother  the Governor of Florida by a fixed election. Since Incumbents do usually win the next election he was elected a second time but not by my vote.Who knows maybe as President he was able to fix the second election better.

I didn't like Clinton either but his main vice was vice being the sleezeball he was & probably still is.

Even the best one I have memory of Kennedy his main good work was the Civil Rights movement he supported & tried to help.LBJ finished this through little effort on his part.& that Kennedy told Russia to get their missiles off Cuba.I guess Kennedy had a great deal to do with the Space Race but this has only helped the USA by the invention that came with developing things for the space vessels.As far as the rest even going to Mars if that ever happens (A manned mision) who's that really going to help?Same with the so called international Space Station built & paid for mostly by the USA.

So Miles_Smiles  don't brand all Americans with the same iron.

This is completly off topic below.

Miles_Smiles  ;Should I picture you as Onslo from "Keeping Up Appearances" or Tom Good from "Good Neighbors" A couple of my favorite Brit shows.The new Dr.Who is pretty good too.The first one I've liked since the Tom Baker with the perm  left the part.

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Cholla-- I apologise if I sounded like I was making all Americans sound the same,it most certainly wasn't my aim.One historical fact I have to put straight is the nuking of Japan. Before the"Elona Gay" dropped her potent load,the Nazi's had surrendered.I think it was 2 to 3 months before hand.I wouldn't dream of saying the USA wasn't a massive addition to the allied side.My father,who was in the "Royal Navy" for 12 years.For 2 of them he worked cheek by jowl with US marines,whom he said were as" fine a bunch of lads as could be found". His only gripe was that he still got British Navy pay,which was much lower then his US buddies pay (lol).

I think it was not only the correct moral decision,for the USA to join in the 2nd World war.it was also a practicle one too.It would have only been a question of time before the Nazi's would have turned their attention to North America.

I think the Japs were finished before they got nuked too.The Soviets had just declared war on Japan,or were just about too.So part of the reason the nukes were dropped was a warning to the Soviets.The other reason was so that each little Japanese island didn't have to be fought for.As I've said I think there was a good chance the Japs were through anyway.

Cholla I like communicating with you. We may not always agree,but you argue your case well and never reduce things to name calling and insults--all power to your elbow

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Miles_Smiles ;Christopher Eccleston is the actor in the Dr.Who we are now seeing in the USA.

An old Brit.hippy sort.Well I guess some would put me in the old Texas hippy category.Sort of a different breed.We like rock & country music.I can listen to Grand Funk followed by Willie Nelson or Jimi Hendrix then Alan Jackson or the Stones then Kris Kristofferson.

I never got into the hard drugs & I have been drug free for over 20 years.I did use a lot of herb before I quit.

I still think of Onslo & Tom Good as aging hippies of a sort the just don't have long hair.I wear mine shorter these days but I've had my hair past my shoulders a lot of my life.

I probably could brush up on my exact order of WW2 It's been a long time since I was in a history class.

Most of the time you debate civilly too.I remember a post or two when you were on the edge with someone but not me.

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Sorry to say but the US has been sold out! The money wheel keeps on rolling as we discard the men and women that protect it.Sell you neighbor out for a buck, at the same time the Charity's are stealing the money from the till. Priests are doing whatever it is they do, and don't forget the separation of church and state.

    I shed a tear for the family's of the lost in the wars, we have created a mess of ourselves, theres no turning back. Notice after 9.11, if you didn't have a flag on your car, people looked at you funny, or felt you were alienating everyone else? Who won there?, obviously the manufacturers of the stickers, flags, and still, ribbons, think they care? , hell no, just stepping up to the task of removing money from your account to theres, well, look at it this way, patriotism? or band wagon? Only we somehow felt good? Just to feel , we in this country are numbbed, due to constant flashes of all the horrible thing we create around the world.It becomes normal to us, The need for something bad to happen runs rampid , due to greed and subjective thinking has ruined us as a people. I hear all the time, "this country's not what it used to be", Bull, the liberal teachings are now just becoming a reality in this world. Controll is the issue, who has more? Try and get more of it. like money, do you think whoever dies with more wins? As for patriotism, I dont see it as a reality, more of a liberal ploy to make you feel, if they can do that , they gotcha by the balls!

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Miles_Smiles I was not merely trying to say that the US could have won the wars single handedly or that it was not a team effort. I was merely stating that we came along when we were obviously needed.

Wasn't bad British Intelegence a big part of the reason for starting into Iraq?

Vietnam was a wash because the Chinese were so formidable in numbers. We never could win in Asia, China is always there. Yeah, we probably should stay out of there. But we were also asked to join in that one.

I am not up on the Granada and Nicaragua ones, but I will if necessary.

I am not saying that you are un-American, just think you might be glad that we have this attitude of trying to help others.

As to pernicious system I am not sure of it's intention here:

Tending to cause death or serious injury; deadly: a pernicious virus.

Causing great harm; destructive: pernicious rumors.

The Axis was on full intent of taking over the whole world, one country at a time. Just like Hitler had a buddy system with Italy until he no longer needed them. Then he just took them over also, like he would probably would have done with Japan.

Personally I am sad that your people do not have more enthusiasm. Mine is not for what is necesarily going on, but mostly what our young nation has acomplished in our short time here. Just a short 230 years.

We will have a new president, and hopefully a much better one at world politics. But in the mean time he is there.

Patriotism:

1)Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it.

2)Patriotism is a feeling of love and devotion to one's own homeland (patria, the land of one's fathers). This article surveys the concept of patriotism from the viewpoints of history, politics, ethics, and biology

3)To show love, support, and sacrifice for one's country.

This is my "Patriotism", I love my country.

I don't believe I ever posted that I agree with every thing we are doing. But we still have to support our boy's.

With out public support, our boy's are doomed a Vietnam future.

Meaning that when our boy's came back form Vietnam they were named baby killers and much more, just because they supported and fought and died for their country. I would not wish this on them. It was very ugly. And that never needs to happen again.

Have you ever been in the military Miles_Smiles?

I have been friends of many military war vets, and they did not always get their just rewards.

But they did do their duty. And this is never fair. They are proud to serve their country, to even  die for what they believe in. Yes Patriotism.

I just will not stand for such ill will for what I believe is right, at least over here.

Maybe it is idealism, and maybe I have it in a strong way. But being an American has given me this right. It has been earned. I and my forefathers have tried to keep it that way.

Presidents come and go. But the US still goes on. Hopefully for the world it will stay that way. Even if we do make mistakes. Who doesn't.

We lick our wounds and go on. We try to do better next time.

One thing at least, we try to finish what we started, usually.

Don't take others for granted, I seem to start a lot of this myself. But here in this thread I was merely trying to show that American's still have "Patriotism" in them, no matter how bad the local media makes it seem. It would seem that we still do!

And I personally hope you stay on this forum, just as I welcomed you in the first place.

But maybe you would have to live here to know what I actually meant by all of this.

Our leaders are mere figure-heads. The president is merely just that. He holds an office position. Bush is the president, the president is not Bush, or any prior leaders. Kind of a twist on words, I know.

Merely meaning that Bush is the acting president. And the president is the ruler of the US. We will always have a president, but it will not always be Bush or Clinton, etc...

Something like that. Airforce 1 will always be the aircraft that the president is on. Not the actual aircraft, or person. I hope you understand this one.

Thanks for your reading time.  Tommie.

Sorry for the lateness, this was started after Reply #20.  :D

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EWO;I'm adding these they are links to a slide show & video from the link in your post.

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/news/finalSalute/

http://cfapp2.rockymountainnews.com/slideshow/slideshow.cfm?type=DEFAULT&ID=012006lundstrom&NUM=1

I think I will put the links in the Ameriacn flag topic too.

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I was not sure where to post, so here we are.

The Highest Patriotism Lies in Weaning U.S. From Fossil Fuels

by Robert Redford

The Bush White House talks tough on military matters in the Middle East while remaining virtually silent about the long-term problem posed by U.S. dependence on fossil fuels. Failing to rein in our dependence on imported oil gives leverage to undemocratic and unstable regimes.

Wasteful consumption of fossil fuels creates political liabilities overseas, air pollution at home and global warming. The rate at which the United States burns fossil fuels has made our country a leading contributor to global warming.

The Bush administration's energy policy to date -- a military garrison in the Middle East and drilling for more oil in the Arctic and other fragile habitats -- is costly, dangerous and self- defeating.

Despite the absence of leadership on energy security in Washington, some local efforts are paying off. Last year, San Francisco voters overwhelmingly approved a $100-million bond initiative to pay for solar panels, wind power and energy efficiency for public buildings. The measure was supported not only by the environmental community but also by the Chamber of Commerce, labor unions and the American Lung Assn.

San Francisco's first solar project, a $5.2-million energy- efficiency upgrade at the Moscone Convention Center, was dedicated last month. What's the straight economic benefit of this particular project? Plenty. The upgrades and the panels combined will cut energy consumption in the building by as much as 38%, and the project will pay for itself from energy savings. The net savings to taxpayers after debt service is subtracted are projected to be more than $200,000 a year.

American rooftops can be the Persian Gulf of solar energy. After Australia, no developed nation on Earth gets more annual sunlight than the United States. In addition, wind is now the fastest-growing energy source worldwide and one of the cheapest. But wind and solar power generate less than 2% of U.S. power. We can do better.

We can increase auto fuel economy standards to 40 miles per gallon. The technology to achieve that goal exists now. Phasing in that standard by 2012 would save 15 times more oil than Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is likely to produce over 50 years. We could also give tax rebates for existing hybrid gas-electric vehicles that get as much as 60 mpg, and invest in mass transit.

These measures would keep energy dollars in the American economy, reduce air pollution and create jobs at home.

The benefits of switching to a mostly pollution-free economy would be considerable, and the costs of failing to do so would be steep. Prolonging our dependence on fossil fuels would guarantee homeland insecurity. If you are worried about getting oil from an unstable Persian Gulf, consider the alternatives: Indonesia, Nigeria, Uzbekistan.

If we want energy security, then we have to reduce our appetite for fossil fuels. There's no other way. Other issues may crowd the headlines, but this is our fundamental challenge.

Big challenges require bold action and leadership. To get the United States off fossil fuels in this uneasy national climate of terrorism and conflict in the Persian Gulf, we must treat the issue with the urgency and persistence it deserves. The measure of our success will be the condition in which we leave the world for the next generation.

Weaning our nation from fossil fuels should be understood as the most patriotic policy to which we can commit ourselves.

------------------

Robert Redford is an actor, director, entrepreneur and environmentalist.

http://www.progress.org/energy13.htm

Just thought it might be interesting.  ;)

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Another interesting read.

Banning Patriotism

But why should students in America feel threatened or insulted by the display of the American flag? After all, they pledge allegiance to it at the start of each school day. The reason seems to have something to do with American educators

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Although I'm for a total stop of future immigration to the USA.I think were full now.& have plenty of diversity for the American gene pool.

If we are going to continue to allow new immigratns then :Us Americans need to turn the heat back up on the MELTING POT & melt the immigrants & pour them into AMERICAN molds.It's time to return to Americans being Americans period & nothing else.If your loyalty is to another country or culture then thats where you should be.So you can be happy & imerse yoursely in that wonderful culture that is so good you left the USA.

So any takers ready to leave the USA for the country & culture you love?

If the answer is yes the don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

If the answer is no.Then become an American & love this country & its culture.Not the one that was so bad you left or in a lot of case your ancestors left & had no intention of returning.

So if you were born in America it's time to accept that you are American not anything else.Not Mexican,Chinese,Japanese ,Viet Namese,Irish,German,English & so on.

BTW good articles tommie gorman .

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        Ran across this and thought it would be a good addition

worldtradewithflag1024.jpg

                                NEVER  FORGET

                                      :(  :(  :(  :(

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I thought I would put in some Native Americam Patriotism:

How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us.

If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?

Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods,

every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees

carries the memories of the red man.

The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our dead never forget this

beautiful earth, for it is the mother of the red man. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers

are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows,

the body heat of the pony, and man --- all belong to the same family.

So, when the Great Chief in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land, he asks much of us. The Great Chief sends

word he will reserve us a place so that we can live comfortably to ourselves. He will be our father and we will be his

children.

So, we will consider your offer to buy our land. But it will not be easy. For this land is sacred to us. This shining water

that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you the land, you must

remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred and that each ghostly reflection in the

clear water of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my

father's father.

The rivers are our brothers, they quench our thirst. The rivers carry our canoes, and feed our children. If we sell you our

land, you must remember, and teach your children, that the rivers are our brothers and yours, and you must henceforth give

the rivers the kindness you would give any brother.

We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a

stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and

when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's grave behind, and he does not care. He kidnaps the earth from

his children, and he does not care. His father's grave, and his children's birthright are forgotten. He treats his mother,

the earth, and his brother, the sky, as things to be bought, plundered, sold like sheep or bright beads. His appetite will

devour the earth and leave behind only a desert.

I do not know. Our ways are different than your ways. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the red man. There is no

quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to hear the unfurling of leaves in spring or the rustle of the insect's

wings. The clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lonely cry of the

whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around the pond at night? I am a red man and do not understand. The Indian

prefers the soft sound of the wind darting over the face of a pond and the smell of the wind itself, cleaned by a midday

rain, or scented with pinon pine.

The air is precious to the red man for all things share the same breath, the beast, the tree, the man, they all share the

same breath. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breathes. Like a man dying for many days he is numb to the

stench. But if we sell you our land, you must remember that the air is precious to us, that the air shares its spirit with

all the life it supports.

The wind that gave our grandfather his first breath also receives his last sigh. And if we sell you our land, you must keep

it apart and sacred as a place where even the white man can go to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadow's flowers.

So we will consider your offer to buy our land. If we decide to accept, I will make one condition - the white man must treat

the beasts of this land as his brothers.

I am a savage and do not understand any other way. I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white

man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be made more

important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive.

What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, man would die from a great loneliness of the spirit. For

whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected.

You must teach your children that the ground beneath their feet is the ashes of our grandfathers. So that they will respect

the land, tell your children that the earth is rich with the lives of our kin. Teach your children that we have taught our

children that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of earth. If men spit upon the ground,

they spit upon themselves.

This we know; the earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the

blood which unites one family. All things are connected.

Even the white man, whose God walks and talks with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may

be brothers after all. We shall see. One thing we know which the white man may one day discover; our God is the same God.

You may think now that you own Him as you wish to own our land; but you cannot. He is the God of man, and His compassion is

equal for the red man and the white. The earth is precious to Him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator.

The whites too shall pass; perhaps sooner than all other tribes. Contaminate your bed and you will one night suffocate in

your own waste.

But in your perishing you will shine brightly fired by the strength of the God who brought you to this land and for some

special purpose gave you dominion over this land and over the red man.

That destiny is a mystery to us, for we do not understand when the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses are tamed,

the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills blotted by talking wires.

Where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone.

The end of living and the beginning of survival.

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cholla : Great article  A terrible injustice has and in some ways is still being done to the Native Americans.  Few people even care.  I have just a tad of Native blood in me from the upper parts of Mississippi.  I'm proud of the fact.

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EWO ;The article  in my post above is suppose to be a letter to the President from Cheif Seattle about the US government wanting to buy land from his tribe.There is some disagreement over if this is a fact.But it makes you think not just how the Indians were treated bit about how we treat the Earth.

I have at least two kinds of Native American in my gene pool but like I told tommie gorman.

If your ancestors have been in America several generations there were many more men settlers that women settlers.The men took Native American women as mates & sometimes wives.Then because of prejudice & because problems about Native Americans being able to own land.They hid the fact they were part Native American if they could.So most Americans have more Native American in their gene pool that they are aware of.

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Just another thing I found.

Patriot Day, 2002

By the President of the United States of America

A Proclamation

On this first observance of Patriot Day, we remember and honor those who perished in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. We will not forget the events of that terrible morning nor will we forget how Americans responded in New York City, at the Pentagon, and in the skies over Pennsylvania -- with heroism and selflessness; with compassion and courage; and with prayer and hope. We will always remember our collective obligation to ensure that justice is done, that freedom prevails, and that the principles upon which our Nation was founded endure.

Inspired by the heroic sacrifices of our firefighters, rescue and law enforcement personnel, military service members, and other citizens, our Nation found unity, focus, and strength. We found healing in the national outpouring of compassion for those lost, as tens of millions of Americans participated in moments of silence, candlelight vigils, and religious services. From the tragedy of September 11 emerged a stronger Nation, renewed by a spirit of national pride and a true love of country.

We are a people dedicated to the triumph of freedom and democracy over evil and tyranny. The heroic stories of the first responders who gave their all to save others strengthened our resolve. And our Armed Forces have pursued the war against terrorism in Afghanistan and else-where with valor and skill. Together with our coalition partners, they have achieved success.

Americans also have fought back against terror by choosing to overcome evil with good. By loving their neighbors as they would like to be loved, countless citizens have answered the call to help others. They have contributed to relief efforts, improved homeland security in their communities, and volunteered their time to aid those in need. This spirit of service continues to grow as thousands have joined the newly established USA Freedom Corps, committing themselves to changing America one heart at a time through the momentum of millions of acts of decency and kindness.

Those whom we lost last September 11 will forever hold a cherished place in our hearts and in the history of our Nation. As we mark the first anniversary of that tragic day, we remember their sacrifice; and we commit ourselves to honoring their memory by pursuing peace and justice in the world and security at home. By a joint resolution approved December 18, 2001 (Public Law 107-89), the Congress has authorized and requested the President to designate September 11 of each year as "Patriot Day."

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim September 11, 2002, as Patriot Day. I call upon the people of the United States to observe this day with appropriate ceremonies and activities, including remembrance services and candlelight vigils. I also call upon the Governors of the United States and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, as well as appropriate officials of all units of government, to direct that the flag be flown at half-staff on Patriot Day. Further, I encourage all Americans to display the flag at half-staff from their homes on that day and to observe a moment of silence beginning at 8:46 a.m. eastern daylight time, or another appropriate commemorative time, to honor the innocent victims who lost their lives as a result of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fourth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand two, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-seventh.

GEORGE W. BUSH

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020904-10.html

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