Barak Obama's Church

[tommie gorman]

The really funny part here is we are being dogged for our idea's of dogging the candidates. So maybe a hint where this all started? In history that is? What happened to a candidate telling what was good about himself and what he actually intended to do? I do not believe it was the general public. So why blame us for the game they all started and continue to do themselves.

[mudmanc4]

:haha:  I guess it's just others way of joining in all the fun and caring towards each other that the future leaders are showing us how to do

[LeftFutBrakin]

Well somebody better be praying for this country....God knows we need it....lol

Just look at the shape it's in.....

In politics

1. No permanent enemies [my enemy's enemy is my friend..until we also become enemies]

2. Its about money [kickbacks, kickbacks, kickbacks]

3. Its about self preservation [wouldnt we all love the power]

4. Its "honestly" a total sham. [the earlier you realize it the better]

5. Its matter of choosing between devils...[wouldnt you go for the devil you know?]

Im seeing this with my very own eyes right now.  :cry:

http://josephkaroki.wordpress.com/ [a prayer for us would be appreciated too]

SO PLEASE CHOOSE WISELY...or as wisely as you can

[philp]

I also approve of his stance on people. Please don't take my next comment as a racist one, but it does show he isn't just all about promoting black people without reason (and this is HIS own race so it matters that he takes the stance, not the fact that the stance is about black men). He is all about holding black fathers that are not around for their kids accountable. He is about educating them (and all the poor and getting them the resources to BE educated). He is about strength of the family. Yes, he speaks to black men to tell them to stick around, but he also states that it is important for our contry that parents are involved in parenting and not just procreating.

Sounds like Bill Cosby, but that doesn't make him a good candidate for president.

Every citizen of this country is free to enjoy the same type of education that was available to me. I went through the public school system and received my high school diploma. I also worked 7 days a week (after school til 9 P.M. and 9-9 Saturdays and Sundays) from the age of 15 until I graduated at 18. Why? because my parents didn't have the money and told me that if I wanted anything more than food and a roof over my head that I better get a job. I worked for the money to buy my first car but they wouldn't allow me to drive it until I paid for the insurance too.

I graduated with a 3.95 GPA (on a 4 point system) and had perfect attendance my senior year. I went to tech school to learn a trade after high school and supported myself by working after school and on the weekends there, too. Was it because I am white and received special treatment? Or was it because I applied myself? I think the latter.

I don't buy all the "the government should help me because....." bullshit. I DO, however, believe in working hard for what you want.

[mudmanc4]

I don't buy all the "the government should help me because....." bullshit. I DO, however, believe in working hard for what you want.

Were on the same page !  More people should feel this way, like they used to.

[Le_Murphant]

philip, I believe that you have started the intervention I had comming but not quite completed it: with republican views, and considering yourself as a republican, you do not need to find a dishonest or discrediting attribute for a democrat such as Obama not to vote for him, but simply you can say that you would not vote for such a person because that person has views that do not concord with yours.

For example, I love the way Ron Paul speaks and the arguments he makes, I have found his argumentation to be structured and logical as well as his answers to seem honest. I care not about his political or religious background, as long as he is not known to have links to some kind of fraud, I don't care how good or bad looking the guy looks (hint to the Clinton pictures out there) but what I do care about are his political views, and I do not agree with them, thus I would not vote for him. I was recently reading Arnold Schwarzenegger's wikipedia page and I found one quote particularly interesting

I finally arrived here in 1968. What a special day it was. I remember I arrived here with empty pockets but full of dreams, full of determination, full of desire. The presidential campaign was in full swing. I remember watching the Nixon-Humphrey presidential race on TV. A friend of mine who spoke German and English translated for me. I heard Humphrey saying things that sounded like socialism, which I had just left.

But then I heard Nixon speak. He was talking about free enterprise, getting the government off your back, lowering the taxes and strengthening the military. Listening to Nixon speak sounded more like a breath of fresh air. I said to my friend, I said, "What party is he?" My friend said, "He's a Republican." I said, "Then I am a Republican." And I have been a Republican ever since.

Now, I don't support Arnold's views and I do not try to insinuate that all republicans are like him or anything, but I found that this statement was a very good explanation of one's political faith, and I think it to be a much better argument to support one candidate or another. If everyone thought like that, the amount of money collected during the campaign might just become a secondary factor to one's victory, just like whether he/she attended mass when he/she was young or what color skin he/she has.

Now if you want to have a debate between republicans and democrats, whether it is better to have a more or less interventionist state, whether abortion is moral or not, whether religion should be more or less present in schools and public places, be my guest, but there is no need to toss the names of the presidential election candidates around; when comes the time to make the choice as to who to vote for, you can refer to their web pages, where I assume that their values, beliefs and political agendas will be found.

[mudmanc4]

Now if you want to have a debate between republicans and democrats, whether it is better to have a more or less interventionist state, whether abortion is moral or not, whether religion should be more or less present in schools and public places, be my guest, but there is no need to toss the names of the presidential election candidates around; when comes the time to make the choice as to who to vote for, you can refer to their web pages, where I assume that their values, beliefs and political agendas will be found.

Sorry our Canadian scholar, but thats what this thread began as, to bring attention to the real person behind the political figure that thrives on deceit, and ridiculous sound bites.  And thats what we here in the USA are all about in our decision to elect a leader.    But thanks for your opinion.

[philp]

philip, I believe that you have started the intervention I had comming but not quite completed it: with republican views, and considering yourself as a republican, you do not need to find a dishonest or discrediting attribute for a democrat such as Obama not to vote for him, but simply you can say that you would not vote for such a person because that person has views that do not concord with yours.

Ummm ...... what are you talking about??

I never said I was a Republican. I said  I'd vote Republican in the hopes that Clinton and Obama both lose and maybe their supporters will open their eyes to why.

And btw, I wasn't the one who started those e-mails that are circulating right now so don't blame me for trying to "find a dishonest or discrediting attribute for a democrat such as Obama". I was merely commenting on the e-mails themselves.

[tommie gorman]

Le_Murphant , Le_Murphant , Le_Murphant , here we go again. It totally depends on everything he does when he becomes a candidate. I want to know what color his shit is. Does he run around on his wife. Does he smoke (and inhale pot). What is his religious background. The part you keep missing is it is up to me to choose the best president for this most powerful country in the enitre free world at this very moment. And definately decides what my kids' future consists of. Yours are your opinions. And not worth a damn as to how I vote.

If I want to not vote for him because he is purple, gay, democratic, doesn't have enough girlfriends, spends too much money at the local bar, then that is truly my business. Indeed, we have that freeedom here to do just so,

To hear two American soldiers tell it from Iraq, they are fighting for all of our rights. How badly we use them rights is up to us. But none the less our rights to do as we please.  And yes it saddens them at times.

So do you have the same freedom of choice in canada?  And do you all defend it as well?

[Le_Murphant]

Okay, philip, I maybe was wrong on your intentions. Although I did imply that you were republican, that was not my point and I merely assumed it from the interest I perceived from you on self-determination, which is typically more of a republican than a democrat value; for all I care, you could vote Nader. I'm not (dis)crediting you for the e-mails either. I just saw that you were the first to more or less explicitly one of your values (self-determination, from what I understood) and I believed and still believe that such values should be the guidelines to one's vote. Now that might not be your opinion, so I then dissociate myself from you in the expression of mine; I would edit my post and remove your name if I could.

tommie, if I ever find someone with values that are farther than mine, I will advise you. Meanwhile, you're the holder for this title. I do not aspire to change you, but what saddens me is that mudmanc4 has adopted your "he's from Canada so his opinion is irrelevant" attitude which I believe to be invalid. Then again, maybe this is no place for a debate, and as Reso has said,

this isn't a high school debate team. this is a bar that's a hair away from a brawl

[mudmanc4]

tommie, if I ever find someone with values that are farther than mine, I will advise you. Meanwhile, you're the holder for this title. I do not aspire to change you, but what saddens me is that mudmanc4 has adopted your "he's from Canada so his opinion is irrelevant" attitude which I believe to be invalid. Then again, maybe this is no place for a debate, and as Reso has said,

  Self determination in my opinion, is a trait of a free human being, not bound by false rules set by misguided professors, and extreme leftists attitudes that manifest mentally, intentionally, finally to  warp perception of reality, so to create long lines of simple minded followers. Which is IMO ,the definition of insanity ( doing something over and over, and expecting a different outcome ) . Not unlike placing words into others mouths over and again.

What the dems are doing here is exactly the point. They are leaving millions with no choice by placing a woman, and a very controversial man in the mainstream. It is clear that we (USA) are ready for a new  outlook on many levels. And DEBATE is where we get informed at this point.  I would not vote for either of the two for just such reasons, I don't want a woman in representing this country, nor would I like to see such a leftist man in office. To follow my ideas, to have a government (senate/congress) and president all on the same side of the political road is never healthy for future generations, and the obtuse laws that will be pushed through.

Simple human interaction could be considered debate.

[philp]

Okay, philip, I maybe was wrong on your intentions. Although I did imply that you were republican, that was not my point and I merely assumed it from the interest I perceived from you on self-determination, which is typically more of a republican than a democrat value; for all I care, you could vote Nader. I'm not (dis)crediting you for the e-mails either. I just saw that you were the first to more or less explicitly one of your values (self-determination, from what I understood) and I believed and still believe that such values should be the guidelines to one's vote. Now that might not be your opinion, so I then dissociate myself from you in the expression of mine; I would edit my post and remove your name if I could.

I'm glad you can't remove my name from your post because that was your opinion and you are free to express it. But if you read my posts a little more carefully, you will see that I said things like "I just didn't want people to jump to conclusions without knowing that those e-mails have been circulating for awhile now and there is only partial truth in them." and "This country has not yet evolved enough to accept a black president." So please understand that I was neither bashing nor supporting the man.

And when I said "I really enjoy the e-mails about how we shouldn't vote for him because he's a devout Muslim and will destroy America and the ones like that talking about the Church of Christ he belongs to be radical and racist.

Let's make up our minds. Is he Muslim or does he worship Christ? " that was sarcasm.  I don't enjoy those e-mails at all but I do find a bit of humor in the conflicting statements.

[tommie gorman]

tommie, if I ever find someone with values that are farther than mine, I will advise you. Meanwhile, you're the holder for this title. I do not aspire to change you, but what saddens me is that mudmanc4 has adopted your "he's from Canada so his opinion is irrelevant" attitude which I believe to be invalid. Then again, maybe this is no place for a debate, and as Reso has said,

Please, more like warn on the values.  I mean that would make you more American than you already know. So what do you feel my values are then, because I really do know you have no idea.

And you in a million years could not change me. I defend all Americans to the best of my ability. To always have the very same freedoms my forefathers gave us so many years ago with their blood and own lives. It is a freedom to vote as I see fit. I am not a Canadian basher, but I will not eversupport the idea's that most Canadians appear to want Americans to have. We haven't and never will be sheep for the slaughter, or the type who will let the world tell us how to think. We are very independent. Always was and will be.

Its not that you are from Canada, its because you are "A" typical of the persona that illuminates from Canadian media. Same as we are perceived by what is said by our media. 

BUT...by all means you have my permission to slam me for being 100% American blooded any time. I look forward to it.

And straight to the topic I have yet to see one good reason to vote for Obama or his counterpart WITCH Hilary. Even though they will both undoubtedly end up together on the same ballot. two (jail) birds of a feather so to speak.

And yes I suppose American voters are unique compared to others in the world also. But hey I suppose we are unique in all ways really. Maybe that is why they flock from other countries to just land here. We must beyond what you think be doing most things right after all. So why would we succumb to your thoughts of changing what is done right in the first place.

[ghostmaster]

Even though they will both undoubtedly end up together on the same ballot. two (jail) birds of a feather so to speak.

No they won't.  Clinton and Obama would not be an electable ticket.

[tommie gorman]

I wouldn't think so either but they are way in the lead.

I certainly would also hope not. But one never knows. It would seem likely if they both do real well though.

[Le_Murphant]

So what do you feel my values are then, because I really do know you have no idea.

From what I have discussed with you in the last year or so, here are some of the values and opinions that I believe I have seen you defend:

Freedom of enterprise, promotion of English as the only official language is the US, pureness of bloodline, armed defense of borders, respect of the sacred aspect of America, support of the American troops whatever the circumstances, immorality of any kind of music pirating, God is on your side.

I tried to be as objective as possible in the formulation of those values. Note that we have more disagreeing point that I couldn't formulate in a concise way, so I'll only defend these. My point is that I do not share any of these values and opinions at least not as you have formulated them in the past on this forum. If you doubt the source of my interpretation of such values or opinions, feel free to PM me.

[tdawnaz]

okay you two...that's enough verbal brawling...the last statement by Le_Murphant says it all...these squabbles need to stay out of the main forum...take it outside boys...i have my good china in here and i don't want anything broken...

i will say that you both post good points...and those are your opinions (some of which i agree with on both sides)...which are all highly valued in this forum...regardless of what country you come from and i'll tell you why...

we are on this planet together...and the USA is the most powerful country in the free world...so the leader that we choose effects everyone...NO our president won't lead the entire world but some of the decisions and the actions taken during this upcoming administration will have a big impact on the world as a whole...so we don't need to devalue or discredit anyones opinion based on where they live...period...

that's all i have to say...well maybe not ALL...but all for now

[mudmanc4]

  Well said.

                This thread took the exact direction I expected it to when I pondered planting it, and I have LeMurphant, and Tommie to thank for making my point.  Thanks guy's . Notice how it took less than two people (posts) to get here.

    Look, this is precisely how every discussion on the planet ends up when we discuss politics or religion, put them together and nothing else seems to make a differenc aside personal opinion. I am not immune to this myself. It's simple human nature.

What I have yet to find out , is where this comes from, and why, because this is the root of our problems world wide.  Is it pride?  Upbringing? Schooling? I don't think so. Is it how ell financially one does? or does it all tie into how strict we are to follow our our personal feelings on any given subject that consists of the effects personal actions have on the long and short of mass decisions.

We all seem to want others to want what we want. And many times we will go to no lengths to attempt the transition. Yet after millions of years of living together, knowing these details, we still hold contempt for any feeling one has that does not mirror our own. It is what causes "clicks", friendship circles, church gatherings, committies, cities,  political parties, it causes death, and growth at the same.

At some point something must take notice, that when something drastic, that effects all , or most of us, we all become whole again, thinking alike, our polarity changes , we feel good, understanding we have someone out there, something in common, that we understand thesee downfalls and faults , and bickering become meaningless.   

Sooner than later, the clouds come back, and we begin to place blame , reasons for us becoming so close, doing everything we can to separate each  other from ourselves, moving back into our comfy little corner of the world, or our mental safe place, where we can feel no shame for being so cold and subjective. So thoughtless of the reality  that we are one in the same, we are all connectred , we all really want the same thing, just a different color, or flavor, or smell.

I have to say, the most comfortable time in my adult life, was in the weeks after 911.   There were no conflicts, everyone said hi, waived at you, let you out in traffic, held the door for you with a smile!  We all found our common ground.  It concerns me of what it may take to bring us all together like that again, now that we have experienced it, it will take something stronger.

So try and find a shred of compassion for yourself, pay attention to what you think in any given situation so that your eyes are open, bleed inside a little , don't let it scab up and become a calloused sore that promotes something that no one wants. Because when we get personal attacks going , it becomes non productive. I know, I'm still working on it myself.

[tdawnaz]

oh my god...talk about well said!!...that was so perfect and right on!!...if everyone could just absorb that...feel it...learn from it...we could grow a little as humans from those thoughts...

we are all still working on it...

god love ya...ur such a wise man...cocky! ...but wise...now quit bangin on my door and just come in...ur wife called and said u forgot ur key so the door is unlocked

[tommie gorman]

But all I wanted was another chocolate chip or oatmeal raisin cookie mommma T.

And I am not KKK, I do not believe in "pureness of bloodline". And I am a mixed mostly Irishman. Basically American who enjoys his Irish background. Unless you include not allowing illegals to just run rampant. Or the abuse of welfare, two big downfalls the gov't needs dearly to take notice of in the future. Yes a few points my candidate damn well better face real soon.

Or the "immorality of any kind of music pirating" which the RIAA has shown darn well that they can over abuse real well on the US tax dollars at work. Another point I wish was a candidates choice to face. I mean when you can not even put your paid CD onto your own computer with out HUGE fines it is time to do something about.

As far as getting along, my own brother and I get along quite well. But we will always have a difference of opinions. He is has little, I have much more. Simply because of our values. And we had the same upbringing. The world is and always will be like that. 

You know well mudman that I am partly tired of the US being the brunt of world persection for having opinions that differ from others that would rather just sit and accuse the US of not doing what they themselves will not even lift a finger themselves to do. So when we do it it is much like my wife ready to tell me I did it wrong, but damn well not ready to help physically. So I tell her also to butt out. DAMN me, huh. Any body have a wife like this.  If not I can share mine with them. No charge and the longer the better.  I pay shipping and delivery. (one way of course)

Still find it hard to think about a bottle of French wine. 

[mudmanc4]

I understand where every one is comming from. The US does what in in there best interests, irrelevant of what anyone else thinks, hell, evenoccasionally what her citizens think, lol.

The fact of what other nations do , or don't do, is how there media makes the citizens feel about certain situations. It seems that the media, and professors are doing a great job of pumping out students to feel as they have been directed. To be followers.

Tommie it is due to the choices our nation makes and our cause , or because we actually have a cause , as to why we get this flack. As I well know, any person , or organization in a leadership menu, will be the brunt of criticism. And ridiculed by those who know not, or chose not to see that they are simply doing what they feel is the path they must take to achieve there goal.

I suppose my original question in this thread may never be truthfully answered, is Hussein a liberal democrat, or is he  a  Libertarian ???????????????? There is however , a definite difference!

[coknuck]

I suppose my original question in this thread may never be truthfully answered, is Hussein a liberal democrat, or is he  a  Libertarian ???????????????? There is however , a definite difference!

Stop it your Killing me! :2funny:

[mudmanc4]

Stop it your Killing me! :2funny:

but.but.....but........whaaaaaat????? 

[mudmanc4]

Name and meanings (supposedly)

Barack:

Pronunciation:  bar-rak

Gender: Boy Name

Origin: Hebrew

Name Meaning: Lightning, a flash of light. The name is borne in the Old Testament by the son of Abinoam who waged a successful war campaign against Jabin at the urging of the prophetess Deborah

]www.babynamesocean.com/hebrew_names/meaning_of_Barak.html]

Hussien :

Meaning & Origin: From the Arabic personal name, Husayn, derived from the Arabic hasuna, meaning "to be good" or "to be handsome or beautiful." Hasan, for which Hussain is a derivative, was the son of Ali and the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad.

Surname Origin: Muslim

[url=http://

http://genealogy.about.com/od/surname_meaning/p/hussain.htm]'>http://genealogy.about.com/od/surname_meaning/p/hussain.htm]

http://genealogy.about.com/od/surname_meaning/p/hussain.htm

Obama :

Obama

[tommie gorman]

I will not ever understand why it is as of late (last 18 years anyway )that deciding a new president is the lesser of several evils.